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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#231

Post by nostromo »

agitator wrote: post #151
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

I agree. Yes, it will cost a lot and yes we need to find a way to fund it, but giving all communities fair access to education is in everyone's best interest. Increasing the base level of education makes everyone a more intelligent, informed citizen and voter, and will have a positive impact on the progression of our country. I think it's a bad idea to be penny pinching in this regard. I also think everyone being edu…

More people should read, “The Case against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money”

People take it a priori that more education is always good — when there’s a lot of evidence that the vast majority of higher education (in both time and dollars spent) is wasted.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#232

Post by monocasa »

jsoc815 wrote: post #213
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

> ...FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. Would you mind saying when and by whom you were told this? Asking because this was not my experience. While I can't remember if I had to/or was able to finagle my parents' info for FAFSA, I do remember having direct discussions w/my school @…

I was told that in my specific situation, I'd need documentation of leaving an abusive household.

Ironically if I had applied to college while I was 17, they have a category for emancipated minor. But since I was no longer a minor, that didn't apply to me.

And to answer you question, this was repeated from several potential schools' financial aid departments.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#233

Post by karmajunkie »

briandear wrote: post #111
karmajunkie wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been conclusive disproven by comparing what happened in different states that enacted tort reform for medical malpractice. The cost of insurance dropped a bit, but there has been no effect the cost of healthcare provisioning.

I would argue that it hasn't been "conclusively" disproven. One key study "disproved" it in the aggregate across all insurance, but not on a specific specialty-by-specialty basis[1]. The malpractice costs of OB-GYN's for example are reflective of the potentially catastrophic tort liability exposure despite an overall low level of influence of tort reform on insurance costs generally. However, this study: https://www.…

That doesn't demonstrate any conclusions whatsoever about costs. What it demonstrates, however tenuously [1], should surprise no one: physicians have a preference to practice in areas where the costs of their malpractice are minimized. The notion that it brings costs down by increasing supply is a central tenet of the tort reform movement. However, this hypothesis has not been borne out by the evidence [2].

Moreover, as someone who worked in public health in Texas during the post-tort-reform era, particularly with hospitals in rural Texas, I can tell you anecdotally that the supply of physicians available outside major metropolitan areas declined when tort reform activists predicted an increase in supply.

[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2047433 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5701901/

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#234

Post by CindyCarlson »

chimeracoder wrote: post #155
bawana wrote: post #145

They need warm bodies (residents are cheap labor) to run the hospital (the money machine that gets thousands of dollars per xray, per drug, etc). A steady supply of med students who are already situated in NYC saves them the cost of recruiting residents from afar. And who knows how much money they save by cutting the bureaucracy to administer tuition, loans, Sally Mae compliance, etc.

> They need warm bodies (residents are cheap labor) to run the hospital (the money machine that gets thousands of dollars per xray, per drug, etc). A steady supply of med students who are already situated in NYC saves them the cost of recruiting residents from afar. And who knows how much money they save by cutting the bureaucracy to administer tuition, loans, Sally Mae compliance, etc. This is a rather elaborate con…

> This is a rather elaborate conspiracy theory

I wish it was.

> and one that falls apart entirely once you think about the actual costs of residency programs

What are the `actual` costs of residency program?

> the mechanics of matching students

As someone who has seen how the sausage is made ... the junior attendings (usually paid like shit because it's an academic institution) sort through a few thousand ERAS applications who narrow it down to a few dozen candidates. We hold a few interview dates and have a dinner at somewhat nice place. We have a meeting. We make a rank list. An algorithm matches our residents. That's it.

Consider that what the average applicant spends on traveling for interviews (I'd guess ~5-15k, more if couples matching or competitive specialty; many take out loans for this)... I don't feel bad for the programs holding a few interview dinners.

> real ROI that they would make in the process

What are you basing this on? Most teaching hospitals would fall over without cheap resident labor. In practice, my experience is that residents function like extremely cheap, slightly-more capable mid-level providers.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#235

Post by monocasa »

Symbiote wrote: post #176
WillPostForFood wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that for a worthless degree in antaractic penguin studies from Shady St Univ. You still graduate unemployed, unskilled, but instead of you paying the debt, someone else does. Also, with no skin in the game, I’m sure college will get even less serious.

What's wrong with zoology / ornithology today?

Not sure why this is downvoted. There are plenty of degrees that might be useless for making an employer more money, but provide important work for society.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#236

Post by justonepost »

pitaj wrote: post #208
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

No, College is expensive because it's horribly inefficient. Professors are paid terribly.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#237

Post by ansy »

monocasa wrote: post #120
sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

> Just make college free.

I think a good compromise is to make public universities and community colleges free for residents of that state.

Private schools with massive endowments can do what they already do to make college affordable to the exceptionally poor or talented.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#238

Post by NTDF9 »

nostromo wrote: post #220
pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized.

The problem is that government subsidizes loans. It doesn't do something like capped match. The government should just say, "We will cover your need-based education burden up to $20,000".

Something like this would make most state schools accessible to most kids and yet, put a big limitation on how much schools can raise tuition. Some schools will raise it up to 40k, others will keep it at 20k, both will try to maximize intake for their tuition.

Simply handing out unbounded, undischargeable loans is just crazy!

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#239

Post by stevenwoo »

naveen99 wrote: post #121
karmajunkie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not giving it up—it's being paid by the interest on a rather large endowment.

They are giving up interest on a rather large endowment.

From the article they are 450 million into a roughly estimated 700 million needed to fund this new initiative.
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