How America Uses Its Land • Hacker News Board

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#231

Post by heurist » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #75

StillBored wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered. For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on…

No one is doing any commercially meaningful farming (not even for a small business) on 20 acres. Consider for grazing use 2-6 acres per cow is needed. 4 cows, isnt even a blip. Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either. On lot 1, most of the taxed value is derived from the improvements, not the land itself.

You can feed a family with vegetables and eggs on less than two acres (some claim 1/4 acre) if you know how.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#232

Post by bensonn » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

"With so much of the U.S. population in urban areas, it’s little surprise that these areas contribute an outsize amount to the economy. The 10 most productive metropolitan areas alone contributed to about 40 percent of U.S. GDP in 2016."

I always find facts like this misleading, not purposefully so but misleading all the same. Take a semi-random example, PepsiCO. HQ in NY, Incorporated in NC, 250k + employees, 60B+ revenue. This is a huge company with many brands and global sales. They are stocked and sold all over the world with factories, distribution centers, sales centers, etc all over the place.

Does the NY metropolitan area claim all 60B in productivity?

Weyerhauser is another interesting company. For 100 years they were based on of Federal Way and only recently moved to Seattle (probably same metro area anyway). Obviously their bread and butter, timber, is not grown, harvested or converted into product in the metro area. The CEO lives in Seattle but the thousands of lumberjacks and mill workers are not in urban areas. The employees that "do the work" are not in urban areas. That last sentence isn't meant to be inflamatory but it was the best wording I could think of.

Some companies, maybe Facebook, do generate the vast majority from the HQ in an urban area.

It is beyond my skills to figure it out but I think an equally cool map/graph/infographic (I do think this is cool, just a small nitpick here) would be to break down how and where companies actually generate their revenue.

Another possibility- I don't know what I am talking about and these stats already take this into account.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#233

Post by dang » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #181

PakG1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe so. Other organisms don't really seem to have a concept of value, which would imply they're willing to make trades. Any organism that gathers things seems to hoard at best without any idea what it would trade for what it's hoarding.

Man, people have really jumped on the worst habit of Reddit here lately, downvoting people they disagree with.

Downvoting for disagreement has always been ok on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16574021

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#234

Post by ameister14 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #233

ameister14 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, people have really jumped on the worst habit of Reddit here lately, downvoting people they disagree with.

Downvoting for disagreement has always been ok on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16574021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

That's pretty fascinating, because as I understand it, downvoting pushes comments down a page and makes it harder to see, it functions as an added method along with flagging and moderating of enforcing community norms and removing unwanted behavior. I'm surprised that extends to valid but unpopular opinions, as well. Thanks, that's interesting.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#235

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

rebuilder wrote: post #98

Turing_Machine wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately the methanogens in a cow’s gut mean that they’re an environmental disaster. The bison that lived there before had identical gut bacteria, and it doesn't seem to have caused an "environmental disaster". Why not?

Because there were much fewer bison than there now are cows, and because the atmosphere wasn't already being pumped full of CO2, methane etc. by humans.

That is incorrect. The plains bison herds expanded to match the carrying capacity of the grazing.

Now, there are a lot of other cattle that aren't being grazed on the historical prairie. You might have a point with those, but it's not relevant to the point under discussion.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#236

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

GW150914 wrote: post #170

Turing_Machine wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately the methanogens in a cow’s gut mean that they’re an environmental disaster. The bison that lived there before had identical gut bacteria, and it doesn't seem to have caused an "environmental disaster". Why not?

Because the bison were between 3x to 4x less numerous than cattle, lived far longer lives than the average 2.5 years to slaughter of a cow (not counting veal calves which are killed far sooner and never graze). It’s not just the number of cows or bison alive at any moment, but when you consider a 10 year period and count total individuals it’s even more stark due to rapid turnover of cattle. Buffalo were part of an e…

> Because the bison were between 3x to 4x less numerous than cattle

No, they weren't. You need to count only the cattle that are on the land under discussion.

> lived far longer lives than the average 2.5 years to slaughter of a cow

Irrelevant. One bovine is the same as another as far as the impact on the prairie is concerned. That's sort of how an ecosystem works, dude.

I'm skeptical that they lived "far longer lives", by the way. If they were anything like the wild grazing/browsing animals with which I am familiar (moose, caribou, musk ox) a WHOLE LOT of them died in their first year, either through being taken by predators or simply not surviving a harsh winter.

I strongly suspect you're using a lifespan figure for modern bison herds that are protected by human beings.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#237

Post by influnza » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:58 PM UTC

I really enjoyed this page's UI on a mobile device.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#238

Post by windows_tips » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 1:31 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #85

windows_tips wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder if, faced with this choice, most people would not simply become vegetarians. Probably not if they had to forage all their foods at current densities.

There is plenty of land that could be used for well-managed forest gardens. Bali is an example of a modern economy where people can forage a lot of their calories that way.

It would be real nice if our neighborhoods and streets were lined with edible plants. It seems like it could/would be a lot of work to maintain, but with the appropriate tools and planning it might be pretty simple. Non-edible (as far as I know) street trees are already watered by hand (with water trucks) here and they only seem to be used for decoration and shade.

edit: one issue to be careful of is the plants collecting "pollution"

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#239

Post by yellowapple » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 1:34 AM UTC

insensible wrote: post #220

xapata wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more specific, the cows should take a bite and move on. This keeps the grass short, but doesn't kill it. With short grass, predators can see prey easier, so birds can eat and deposit droppings to add more nitrogen to the soil.

We can simulate buffalo mob grazing with "managed intensive grazing": many cows in a small area for about a day, then they move. In addition to what you said, it manures the land quite evenly. The grass can stay in its fastest-growing "adolescent" stage. Builds topsoil quickly and sequesters unbelievable amounts of carbon. (This is not how most beef is raised.)

"This is not how most beef is raised."

It's how most beef should be raised, though, IMO.

Unfortunately, if we were to take all the cows stuck in factory farms and turn them loose on BLM land, I somehow doubt there would be enough food out there for them.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#240

Post by insensible » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #239

insensible wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can simulate buffalo mob grazing with "managed intensive grazing": many cows in a small area for about a day, then they move. In addition to what you said, it manures the land quite evenly. The grass can stay in its fastest-growing "adolescent" stage. Builds topsoil quickly and sequesters unbelievable amounts of carbon. (This is not how most beef is raised.)

"This is not how most beef is raised." It's how most beef should be raised, though, IMO. Unfortunately, if we were to take all the cows stuck in factory farms and turn them loose on BLM land, I somehow doubt there would be enough food out there for them.

Grass-feed cattle farmers tell me it takes almost exactly the same amount of land to graze cows as it does to grow the grain to feed them in a feedlot, so that would be a direction to look: replacing grain farming with ecological grazing.