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Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

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Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#231

Post by zero_intp »

llewey wrote: post #208
alkonaut wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside the US merchants almost invariably encourage the use of cards. Zero places here are cash only (not even a hot dog stand) but tons are explicitly cash free. [edit: in some places.] The big savings come when you have zero cash to deal with. Then you have no counting/change/armed transport/security issues at all.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

I visited Stockholm this summer, it was 100% card acceptance, and 25% cash acceptance.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#232

Post by zero_intp »

mercutio2 wrote: post #155
jamie_ca wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it. My MasterCard is 2% cashback (through points, but that just means I batch it), but has an annual fee of $150 for two cards, and a minimum household income. I need to spend $7500 on the card just to break even, but if I funnel nearly all my expenses through the card I can net $1000 or more a year. These "rewards" come from the merchant, in the form of higher fees, and because the merchant can't discrimin…

There are many zero fee 2% cash back cards available in the USA. Why pay fees?

amex platinum offers rewards that easily pay back the cost if you travel. 2 cards, $450 ($300 + $150) $15 uber/month/card $200 in airline fees Automatic hotel and car rental upgrades more...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#233

Post by clan »

kasey_junk wrote: post #86
sorenbs wrote: post #18

In Denmark we have a national payment system called Dankort. All issued Visa cards also work as Dankort. Transaction fees on Dankort is one tenth of visa, and all payment terminals default to Dankort. This saves Danish retail a lot of money while still ensuring they we can buy stuff online and when traveling using visa.

To be clear that’s due to laws in Denmark that require its acceptance and granting it a particular monopoly status? I’d be curious what the issue rate between the Dankort & the Kroger Plus Card. It’s conceivable that Kroger has the market heft to do with selling power what Denmark did with law. As context Kroger employees about the same number of people as 1/10th of Denmark though I have no idea how that translates t…

Acceptance not required by law and no mandated monopoly. The card was introduced in 1983 and the law which helped the card stated that they could not charge any transaction fees to the consumer.

It became popular with the consumers because there is no difference between cash and the debit card. It was popular with retail because it was cheap to handle.

Consumers would typically get the card for free from the bank. If you wanted it to work as a VISA card abroad as well - then you would typically pay $31/year. Points, percentage, milage and whatnot are virtually unknown.

Many retailers opted only to accept this card because the international cards where more expensive (but available!).

Unfortunately regulations are going in the wrong direction. The banks have now gotten their saving by handling less cash - so now they're pushing for more fees.

A brilliant construction which could have been a great stepping stone for a true cashless society now slowly turns into a "same same". It goes to tell - never let liberals near infrastructure.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#234

Post by raverbashing »

alkonaut wrote: post #209
llewey wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

I know - I went to Berlin and noticed Taxis wanted cash and would not accept cards. Was like traveling 20 years back in time. I did not mean to say all places outside the US

To be fair the only place where I saw taxis accepting cards as a rule was NYC

Practical, still a bit weary though especially without EMV readers

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#235

Post by Nursie »

cm2187 wrote: post #195
Nursie wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very weird to this european.... but that's probably because fees here are capped at 0.3% and AFAICT there's not really such thing as a cashback card. (I think they used to exist, just not any more)

Most credit cards in the UK offer cashback cards, at least amex does. I am not aware that fees are caped. In fact last time I checked the fees from payment processors (like barclaycard) for a transaction online was in the region of 5%.

> Most credit cards in the UK offer cashback cards

Not many AFAICT, and of those that do it's not a lot (Amex platinum have a 5% intro offer, but it falls back to 1% after three months).

Plus most of them seem to have annual fees. Weirdly enough the best one appears to be an ASDA credit card which gives 1% and has no fee.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#236

Post by gst »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #186
mercutio2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many zero fee 2% cash back cards available in the USA. Why pay fees?

For that matter, there's higher flat cashback percentages available if you are paying an annual fee and funneling the majority of your spend through that card. Specifically, the Alliant Cashback Visa Signature is at 2.5% with a $59 annual fee.

The Alliant credit card is a great investment if you need to pay estimated taxes: The cheapest IRS payment processor charges 1.87% to pay taxes via credit card, which is much less than the cashback that you receive from Alliant.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#237

Post by gst »

Nursie wrote: post #145
jamie_ca wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it. My MasterCard is 2% cashback (through points, but that just means I batch it), but has an annual fee of $150 for two cards, and a minimum household income. I need to spend $7500 on the card just to break even, but if I funnel nearly all my expenses through the card I can net $1000 or more a year. These "rewards" come from the merchant, in the form of higher fees, and because the merchant can't discrimin…

This sounds very weird to this european.... but that's probably because fees here are capped at 0.3% and AFAICT there's not really such thing as a cashback card. (I think they used to exist, just not any more)

Are the fees also capped for foreign cards?

I spend significant amounts of time in Europe each year (multiple months) and some of my US credit cards don't charge foreign transaction fees and also earn cashback on transactions done in Europe. I'm wondering who is losing money here - the merchant or the card issuer?

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#238

Post by himlion »

llewey wrote: post #208
alkonaut wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside the US merchants almost invariably encourage the use of cards. Zero places here are cash only (not even a hot dog stand) but tons are explicitly cash free. [edit: in some places.] The big savings come when you have zero cash to deal with. Then you have no counting/change/armed transport/security issues at all.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

For a counterexample, in the center of Amsterdam many cafes / restaurants are card only.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#239

Post by zaarn »

Spooky23 wrote: post #174
ams6110 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My barber doesn't take cards at all. Cash or check only.

Usually that means if he has 25 customers a day, he tells the tax man about 10.

You know, people from the US say that a lot but in other countries like germany where >75% of purchases are cash and a lot of stores are cash only, this doesn't seem to be a problem at all...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#240

Post by [deleted] »

mehrdadn wrote: post #224
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one example. I gave a counterexample. Usually, branding matches to card type. But not always. The question was can they be charged differently, and the answer is yes.

This is a interesting discussion -- and I'm seeing a subtle point here that's getting lost. If I understand your merger example correctly, you're suggesting that a card that is now marketed as Visa Rewards Traditional, for example, may still truly be a Visa Rewards Signature card underneath from before the merger (or whatever the prior classification was). However, what I find important here is that the card still is…

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