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Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

blackmagicdesign.com

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Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#231

Post by binaryblitz »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #132

I kind of like where this is going. Plug and play performance and less noise. I'm not really interested in dropping thousands of euros on the latest gaming hardware. I'm not in the pointlessly blinking leds equipped PC market. And I'm done building my own PC after having to replace the power supply in my last effort three times. I do tend to have up to date mac hw. For me the whole point of that is buying one and the…

> I'm not really interested in dropping thousands of euros on the latest gaming hardware.

> I'm probably going to drop around 3-4K on whatever replaces it.

...

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#232

Post by blattimwind »

themagician wrote: post #200
blattimwind wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value in the ability to upgrade is often misperceived as being worth more than it really is. If you buy something mid-to-top range you are really only going to be able to get a single upgrade cycle out of it out (where there is some substantial marginal benefit for the cost) before the rest of the system starts to obsolete itself. If you watch things closely and the tick-tock cycles are aligned then maybe you g…

It’s never “fast enough.” PCI-E motherboards are actually out now. In three years we will have either PCI-E 4.0 or 5.0 as a standard. And you’re right—PCIe 3.0 cards out today have plenty of performance for today’s applications. That why you would get a PCIe 3.0 card today. But it doesn’t matter if it’s fixed because you aren’t going to upgrade it.

> It’s never “fast enough.”

Actually that's not true. When PCIe 3.0 was introduced, it took quite some time before the (still marginal) performance improvements materialized. We're talking about a few percent at most in games and benchmarks (many are just neutral) between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0, simply because it's not a bottleneck. For not overly data-intensive GPGPU applications (e.g. video things) I reckon that's the case as well. Yes, sure, there are applications you can run on a GPU where PCIe is a bottleneck. PCIe bandwidth benchmarks, for example.

Don't expect PCIe 4.0 consumer-ish (i.e. what this is about) GPUs soon (2019 earliest). It's wholly unclear whether you'll see any performance improvements at all from that — just look at the bus utilization in games and benchmarks, you'll be hard pressed to see more than 10-20 % (which is precisely why running a GPU on a x8 interface (or 2.0) is not an issue).

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#233

Post by themagician »

blattimwind wrote: post #232
themagician wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s never “fast enough.” PCI-E motherboards are actually out now. In three years we will have either PCI-E 4.0 or 5.0 as a standard. And you’re right—PCIe 3.0 cards out today have plenty of performance for today’s applications. That why you would get a PCIe 3.0 card today. But it doesn’t matter if it’s fixed because you aren’t going to upgrade it.

> It’s never “fast enough.” Actually that's not true. When PCIe 3.0 was introduced, it took quite some time before the (still marginal) performance improvements materialized. We're talking about a few percent at most in games and benchmarks (many are just neutral) between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0, simply because it's not a bottleneck. For not overly data-intensive GPGPU applications (e.g. video things) I reckon that's the ca…

If it’s not true then you are actually removing the only major benefit of upgradability all together. Just get what’s available today since it’s fast enough and will be for some time.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#234

Post by kryogen1c »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #196
z3phyr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this comment being down voted?

Curious: how exactly do you see that the comment is being downvoted?

You must be an app user, like myself. It lacks functionality. You can tell if you log into the website.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#235

Post by blattimwind »

themagician wrote: post #233
blattimwind wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s never “fast enough.” Actually that's not true. When PCIe 3.0 was introduced, it took quite some time before the (still marginal) performance improvements materialized. We're talking about a few percent at most in games and benchmarks (many are just neutral) between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0, simply because it's not a bottleneck. For not overly data-intensive GPGPU applications (e.g. video things) I reckon that's the ca…

If it’s not true then you are actually removing the only major benefit of upgradability all together. Just get what’s available today since it’s fast enough and will be for some time.

I think you misread my original comment.

I was saying that the Blackmagic eGPU in an upgradeable form factor would mean that you get a 200-300 $ (or something like that) GPU enclosure with some electronics in it (Thunderbolt hub, power supply etc.). Then you stick a current GPU into it. This would make sense because GPU replacement cycles are much shorter than the interconnect upgrade cycle. That's why I said that most applications are still fine today with the over ten year old PCIe 2.0.

So just to reiterate: PCIe bus speed is simply not a limiting factor for the overwhelming majority of GPU applications.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#236

Post by sangnoir »

cududa wrote: post #203
awalton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd bet 99.9% of people buying PC Laptops never upgrade a single chip... Some huge percentage of that is because many if not most laptops shipping today have wired everything down. You can't even update the Wifi chip in most laptops today, even though the whole reason we put Wifi on a daughtercard in the first place is because we knew the standards were going to have to move... Meanwhile, I'm typing this from a fiv…

You are the first person I've ever heard complain about not being able to upgrade the wifi in their laptop.

I have an 8-year-old laptop. I'd love to upgrade the wifi to something that can connect to 5GHz APs.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#237

Post by z3phyr »

kryogen1c wrote: post #234
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: how exactly do you see that the comment is being downvoted?

You must be an app user, like myself. It lacks functionality. You can tell if you log into the website.

TIL that there is an app!! I always log in from the website.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#238

Post by jonplackett »

cosmojg wrote: post #12
whichdan wrote: post #8

From the FAQ: > Can I upgrade the GPU chip in the Blackmagic eGPU? > No, the design has been optimized for quiet operation so it’s better suited for creative customers. This means the design is not a simple chassis with a PCIe card plugged in, but an integrated electronics, mechanical and cooling design that cannot have the GPU chip upgraded or changed. $699 and no ability to upgrade makes it pretty clear that they'r…

> $699 and no ability to upgrade Sounds like a perfect fit for the Apple ecosystem.

Reason Apple make upgrades impossible is so they can charge ridiculous prices for their built in upgrades.

the new mac has a 4TB SSD option for £2800. You can buy a 4TB top of the range samsung SSD for £800.

£2000 profit is a good motivation for sticking stuff down.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#239

Post by itsdrewmiller »

jonplackett wrote: post #238
cosmojg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $699 and no ability to upgrade Sounds like a perfect fit for the Apple ecosystem.

Reason Apple make upgrades impossible is so they can charge ridiculous prices for their built in upgrades. the new mac has a 4TB SSD option for £2800. You can buy a 4TB top of the range samsung SSD for £800. £2000 profit is a good motivation for sticking stuff down.

SATA SSDs are not top of the line - a 4TB nvme card is more like $3k:

https://www.amazon.com/HighPoint-rSSD7101A-4TB-NVMe-Drive/dp...

The samsung SSDs have about 15% the read speed Apple is advertising.

Re: Blackmagic eGPU – Thunderbolt 3 external graphics processor

#240

Post by Zephyreks »

rbanffy wrote: post #198
dragonshed wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upgraded the ram and disk on my 2012 13in MacBook Pro. The lack of upgradability on the newer machines is a real turn off.

The option is to buy it fully specced. A new 6-core i9 with 32 gigs of DDR4 amd 4TB of flash storage will probably keep you happy for the next 5 years. That means your budget is slightly above US$ 1200/year of happy computing with a Mac. If you don't need macOS or an ultra-elegant thin computer with an incredible screen, you'll probably be happier with a PC from Dell or Lenovo with similar specs and an updated machin…

If happy computing includes trips to the Apple Store every few months because the keyboard got stuck... Again... Maybe. If happy computing means no physical escape or function keys... Maybe. If happy computing means no warranty after 3 years... Maybe. If happy computing means no accidental damage warranty whatsoever... Maybe. If happy computing means an oleophobic coating that will almost definitely fail at least once over the lifetime of the device... Maybe. If happy computing involves not being able to access the data on that 4TB SSD when the laptop bricks itself, necessitating constant backups... Maybe. If happy computing involves knowingly spending double the price of the storage and the RAM otherwise because Apple knows that you won't be able to replace them... Maybe.

But hey, it's thin and light and aluminum, so all is forgiven, right? Don't get me wrong, the MBP is a pretty gorgeous device, but it's pretty hilarious to say that all is good and well just because it's thin and light and aluminum.

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