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Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

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Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asians evidently are too smart to want to get involved in politics. Gotta respect that. (not joking)

This reply demonstrates the problem that an admission process is trying to address. The reply makes it seem like Ivy league admission is like a game to master for some students. Whereas graduates of top schools like Harvard are generally expected to become leaders who care about bigger issues, to have been informed by historical patterns and long term trends. These future leaders must know how to emphatize and care a…

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Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asians evidently are too smart to want to get involved in politics. Gotta respect that. (not joking)

This reply demonstrates the problem that an admission process is trying to address. The reply makes it seem like Ivy league admission is like a game to master for some students. Whereas graduates of top schools like Harvard are generally expected to become leaders who care about bigger issues, to have been informed by historical patterns and long term trends. These future leaders must know how to emphatize and care a…

Agreed. Here's how I put it elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17336374

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The asians will still get rejected. They're not rejected for racial reasons. They're rejected because they submit uninspiring, cookie cutter applications en masse. This may be because of something in the asian culture. That's outside my expertise.

There is a natural follow-up question: why might other races get rejected at high rates, albeit not for racial reasons (similar to your point)? I think there are questions that many people simply don't want the answers to.

Not touching that!

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#234
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ofcourse all types of people are likely intrinsically pretty close to everyone else, but you can't underestimate the effect of culture. Roughly speaking, alcohol is legal worldwide if you're above the age of 18 or so. So why do alcoholism rates vary massively between countries? It's largely 'culture'. Black american culture has been pretty self-destructive these last hundred years. Look at rap music videos, thug cult…

>Black american culture has been pretty self-destructive these last hundred years. Look at rap music videos, thug culture, single motherhood statistics, etc. I suspect you would hesitate to judge the entirety of white american cultural progress on e.g. Kim Kardashian, sporting event riots, and Nascar. For anyone interested in a less monolithic assessment of black american culture, this is possible. https://nmaahc.si.…

... Kim Kardashian is white?

WTF?

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Correcting the effects of slavery is much more important because its effects are much more pervasive. Uh, source? You're just making an arbitrary value judgement. Who are you to compare the effects of racism-against-blacks against the effects of racism-against-asians? You're making an arbitrary value judgement and then using that value judgement to justify systematic discriminations against Asians. You're also ignor…

And someone who insists on absolute racial blindness is not making a value judgement? Isn't the issue mostly about which group to feel sorry for, why, and how? And you want a literary or published source for that empathy? Or are you saying that it is not self evident that a group, one that has been enslaved for hundreds of years, is not disproportionately poorer, grow up in single-parent households, or experience inc…

For someone who talks so much about empathy you ironically completely fail to empathize with Asians.

You're making an emotional argument not a logical or reasoned one so I can tell your mind is the type that isn't persuaded by facts but instead by emotional rhetoric. I bet you cry during political speeches.

You're not worth my time to try to persuade because you just demonstrated a thought process based on anecdotes and evidence and empathy you extend to only one marginalized party instead of both. So instead of giving you the "imagine you're a Cambodian first generation immigrant who gets shat on daily by society AND STILL has a fraction of the chance to get into Harvard as Michael Jordans son" I'll just say: good day to you sir and good luck with your half assed thought process and your attempts to ride the moral high horse of empathy when ironically extending empathy to only one party.

Your thought process is flawed, your reasoning is flawed, and you utterly lack the empathy and compassion you claim to exault. Peace out and good luck with your half assed anecdote-based reasoning -- meanwhile I'll be chilling here looking at the data, calling a spade a spade, and calling a racist admissions process a racist admissions process. You don't get virtue points for throwing your ethnicity under the bus when your ethnicity is actively being marginalized btw. Can't even believe how racist you are rly. Good day to u sir

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. In what reality is lowering standards a way of raising quality? How would it help a black person to be affirmative actioned into a school their admittance evaluation indicates they could not succeed at? I guess affirmative action is only for black kids who barely don't meet the requirements?

Who decides on society ? Priests or tests ? That's the choice here. So how are we "raising quality" ? Easy: this is raising quality in this way. We have collectively decided what quality is (ie. "perfect" equality). We have also extensive data that reality ... just doesn't match our quality metric (different subgroups in society are ... different. In pretty much every factor you might use. Including of course in IQ,…

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Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And someone who insists on absolute racial blindness is not making a value judgement? Isn't the issue mostly about which group to feel sorry for, why, and how? And you want a literary or published source for that empathy? Or are you saying that it is not self evident that a group, one that has been enslaved for hundreds of years, is not disproportionately poorer, grow up in single-parent households, or experience inc…

For someone who talks so much about empathy you ironically completely fail to empathize with Asians. You're making an emotional argument not a logical or reasoned one so I can tell your mind is the type that isn't persuaded by facts but instead by emotional rhetoric. I bet you cry during political speeches. You're not worth my time to try to persuade because you just demonstrated a thought process based on anecdotes…

"... I bet you cry during political speeches ... half-assed ... can't even believe ... "

You make a very unemotional, well reasoned and logical argument, I see.

I honestly think if we met in person we could laugh about this, and I would back off the emphathy angle a bit. It's just that the original question that I replied to was "must we" with regards to another group of people, and it's hard to explain why we must do so without looking at it from the other side.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asians have not been systematically denied entry to the NBA for hundreds of years. I find this comment goes deeper when I followed Jeremy Lin's progression into the NBA. I suggest anyone who is interested in your comment should read too. Lin wasn't systematically denied entry, but the kind of stuff he faced and endured based on his race - which was admitted to by a coach, was pretty bad. And I feel this type of beh…

I agree Jeremy Lin's experience in the NBA was not smooth with regards to acceptance, maybe even now. I'm an Asian, and I've experienced social questioning/shocks that you mention. Having said that, I still hope that the difference in priority and importance is obvious between: (a) correcting the impacts of hundreds of years of systematic outright denial of opportunity in all aspects of life, and (b) a top school's r…

Yes, I do agree righting wrongs due to system racism with: (a): why do this at the expense of other minorities? It looks like on paper, the majority want to uplift (certain) minorities while keeping themselves safe which seems to be going the other direction when righting their wrongs - they aren't giving up anything, they are still taking opportunities from other minorities.

(b): under-represented because of the monolithic term Asian given to them. A lot of which are in poverty but seem to be overlooked based on being Asian. Someone else also mentioned the supposed under-represented group of Jewish people who stand at 1% but account for 40% of the cohort. Whoever gave those numbers was on this thread too - although I do believe a ratio similar to that is the real figure anyhow.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who talks so much about empathy you ironically completely fail to empathize with Asians. You're making an emotional argument not a logical or reasoned one so I can tell your mind is the type that isn't persuaded by facts but instead by emotional rhetoric. I bet you cry during political speeches. You're not worth my time to try to persuade because you just demonstrated a thought process based on anecdotes…

"... I bet you cry during political speeches ... half-assed ... can't even believe ... " You make a very unemotional, well reasoned and logical argument, I see. I honestly think if we met in person we could laugh about this, and I would back off the emphathy angle a bit. It's just that the original question that I replied to was "must we" with regards to another group of people, and it's hard to explain why we must d…

> siosonel 1 hour ago | parent | on: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penaliza...

"... I bet you cry during political speeches ... half-assed ... can't even believe ... " You make a very unemotional, well reasoned and logical argument, I see. I honestly think if we met in person we could laugh about this

Hahaha I totally agree. Well played my friend. Sorry for trolling ya so hard you just got my goat with the emotional rhetoric lol but I see you were just responding in kind to someone else. Have a good night man. :)

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#240
post #119

We need to stop basing education on submission and obedience. Asians are successful students, but they struggle to build startup cultures in their countries. Edit: Downvote me all you want. I'm an educator who has toured schools in Asia to build international educational relationships. Their students are perfect automatons who will never take the risks necessary to change the world.

http://sites.psu.edu/christiercl/2014/04/02/why-stereotypes-...

This article defines stereotypes as "unfair" categorization. That is far different than knowing the fact that groups have traits, and that categorization comes from these observed traits. Of course individuals stand out, that doesn't make the generalization a less useful tool for quick analysis.
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