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Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

factorio.com

231–240 of 286 posts

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#231
post #61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get lucky, it has a window close button on the right top as a safe way out. If you're unlucky... better have that power cable in reach.

I have a feeling pulling the plug would cancel the action.

Hmmm, maybe... or perhaps you get a call that their monitor doesn't work...

On reconnecting the power cable we find all files deleted anyway.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to OK/Cancel for a non-recoverable event (like delete), it's ALWAYS been the case that the dialogue should NOT appear in the first place. Instead, the UI should be seen to do the operation, but then delay its execution while showing an "undo" for a few seconds. The reason for this is that 99.9% of people know what they're doing. So don't bother them for the sake of the 0.1% who make a mistake. But more…

That gives me an idea for my .bashrc: rm () { (sleep 30 && \rm "$@") & } (Untested, and I'm unlikely to use this.)

lol. good luck running a bash script that does a bunch of 'rm's.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#233
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my bank web application the OK button is on the left, and... both buttons are RED because that's the brand's color! It's a terrible web app.

Speaking of banks with terrible websites, my credit union's login page features a checkbox for "Forgot my password", which is not only confusing in and of itself (" I need to enter my password to reset it?") but also is exactly where you'd expect the "Remember me?" checkbox to appear, meaning that any instinctual attempt for me to tell the site to remember who I am will instead result in me resetting my password. I'm…

They paid someone a lot of money to design their UI, so they better do something different from the rest of the world, else they would have wasted money.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how you architect. Generally yes. Check out the Elm architecture (and Redux by extension) to see situations where undo is essentially free.

Anything where your app state is modelled as a series of actions over immutable data, undo and replay will be essentially free to implement :)

destructive updates to your universe, or actions with side effects (anything regarding io) might not be recovered by a simple state management. delete my account, charge my credit card, add a friend, delete a friend...

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#235
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an effective dark pattern. Many websites practice similar trickery.

I wouldn't call it a dark pattern: there's no trickery or deception; nothing bad happens if you pressed the wrong button. It's called a "nag screen", and in many cases it's the only difference between a trial version and a paid one. Here's an example from Total Commander: https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_new_2/windows-coo... (the number to press changes randomly between launches)

It's an attempt to trick the user into clicking the wrong button. Maybe not dark, since all that happens is it annoyingly opens an website, but nonetheless, it is not pleasant or user friendly to intentionally deceive others into doing something they wish to avoid. I believe that practices that are labeled the dark patterns on websites often have no more impact than that.

I'd call it 'user hostile'.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I used to build model aircraft dioramas, a veteran told me "When you arrange vehicles in a diorama setting, always have them facing towards the left side of the board for maximum impact.". His reasoning was that most people's eyes move left to right when examining something - which mimics their eye movement when reading text (at least in Western societies. In R-L countries I guess the opposite would be true…

Toy cars in shops have the cars and trucks all facing right in the packaging. Maybe they've done some ab-testing to get this way. Maybe not. Maybe putting his airplanes facing left made your veteran's models pop because they were inconsistent with other models. Anyway, if you want to make people read the options on buttons, randomize the order each time the popup appears but always destructive buttons like "delete" r…

Is that packaging style the same for all English-speaking countries? Standing on the side of the road and facing traffic, you'd expect all of the near vehicles to be facing right in North America, so perhaps that carried, consciously or otherwise, into packaging decisions.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#237

So why do Samsung android phones put the "back button" on the right contrary to the other android devices? In latin and germanic languages, left means back, cancel, undo, bad whereas right means continue, progress, right!

Because early Android devices had the back button on the right. See for instance the first Android device (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream): the button order was according to Wikipedia "Call", "Home", "Menu", "Back", "End Call".

The standard Android button placement later changed to have the back button on the left, but Samsung kept the old order, probably so that users who upgrade their phone within the Samsung Galaxy series don't have to relearn their muscle memory.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#238
post #117
post #89

On macOS I have turned on the setting that lets one tab through all controls (System Preferences → Keyboard → Shortcuts → All controls). When a “Cancel OK” dialog appears, “OK” is the default choice (in blue) but Cancel is the highlighted one[1], presumably because it’s the first option. This is incredibly convenient because ↵ will activate “OK”, while pressing the space bar will activate “Cancel”. One gets used fast…

You have one of those no-escape-key macbooks, right? Yet another epic fail by that post-apple company.

> You have one of those no-escape-key macbooks, right?

Wrong.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gives me an idea for my .bashrc: rm () { (sleep 30 && \rm "$@") & } (Untested, and I'm unlikely to use this.)

lol. good luck running a bash script that does a bunch of 'rm's.

His aliases wouldn't be in scope there.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#240
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how it should be done. People don't read the message in the popup. But when presented with a Delete button users start to think about what they are doing. Also: 'Delete - Cancel' sets 'Cancel' in a much better context. You are going to cancel a delete action not an 'Ok' action.

When it comes to OK/Cancel for a non-recoverable event (like delete), it's ALWAYS been the case that the dialogue should NOT appear in the first place. Instead, the UI should be seen to do the operation, but then delay its execution while showing an "undo" for a few seconds. The reason for this is that 99.9% of people know what they're doing. So don't bother them for the sake of the 0.1% who make a mistake. But more…

I think this depends on the actual semantics of the delete. If the operation is truly non-recoverable, and you simply lie about doing it and do it after a delay, there is a chance you will be caught in that lie when your process is cancelled or failed for whatever reason.

That is a worse user experience by far - you should never tell someone something has been done unless you are sure it has been done permanently.

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