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Anthony Bourdain has died

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Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#231

Post by a5huynh »

smn1234 wrote: post #219
ctrl-j wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being sad and unhappy is natural... And is not an accurate description of depression. If you think depressed people are just sad/unhappy - please read more on this debilitating disorder.

Maybe the definition of depression is different, society to society. I'm certain a good amount of earth's human population has at one point in the course of their lives felt hopelessness, for whatever amount of time. The majority of those with access to TV who've also seen some American media have likely felt they're missing out on the riches and opportunities that can be had that they're not fortunate to. Is the def…

It is much, much more than feeling sad. Please take a look at what it means to be clinically depressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#232

Post by pitaj »

smn1234 wrote: post #219
ctrl-j wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being sad and unhappy is natural... And is not an accurate description of depression. If you think depressed people are just sad/unhappy - please read more on this debilitating disorder.

Maybe the definition of depression is different, society to society. I'm certain a good amount of earth's human population has at one point in the course of their lives felt hopelessness, for whatever amount of time. The majority of those with access to TV who've also seen some American media have likely felt they're missing out on the riches and opportunities that can be had that they're not fortunate to. Is the def…

I may be wrong, but this how I understand it:

Depression is not hopelessness. It is not sadness. It is not unhappiness.

Depression is a chemical state in the brain which leads to lower general emotion levels. Depression is when you feel nothing. Depressed people may self-harm to "feel something".

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#233

Post by Jach »

chatmasta wrote: post #66
Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Suicide is inherently a selfish act, and I think that’s where the perception of it being “wrong” comes from. Sure you have the right to decide your own fate, but you should consider that you affect other people. In taking your own life you’re also fucking up the life of everyone who cares about you, forcing them into a state of grief and possibly causing them to blame themselves for what was ultimately a selfish act…

On the contrary, it goes against man's (and other life's) natural tendency to love himself, to want to keep existing, which is most selfish but fine and necessary. Suicide stems from being insufficiently selfish. The additional problem you're highlighting is that suicide is also an injury to the common good. That sort of thing is somewhat orthogonal to the selfish/altruist dimension though we conflate them a lot. Lastly, and this is probably more relevant to the history of it being wrong (at least in the west), it spits in the face of god.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#234

Post by skellera »

So many assumptions going around but as someone who has turned their life around, if I relapsed at this point then I would seriously consider suicide. It’s such a hopeless feeling to be addicted. I’ve come too far to roll back down that hill.

But that’s just me. I didn’t climb anywhere near the same heights as he did which it why it made me think that. I hope it’s something more positive (as it could be for something like this).

Edit: Just to add, this death affected me so much more than any other celebrity. I look up to him so much for turning his life around and turning it into what it is. I forget which episode of his newer show it was but he goes out hunting with the guy and shoots a... deer/elk/something. He tells the guy it’s the healthiest he’s ever been. You could tell how much it meant to him to be healthy and be able to do the hike they did.

Don’t know why it stood out so much but I was so happy for him. It encouraged me to keep going.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#235

Post by Sangermaine »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

>Am I not the master of my own existence

No, in many ways and cases you aren't. As comments below note, one of those ways is through mental health issues. While I do agree that people should ultimately have the right to choose, it's simply incorrect to think that it's a simple matter of rational choice. There's very good reason to believe that, in most cases of people seeking suicide, they are not of sound mind.

This idea that you are the perfect and complete "master of my own existence" is one of the most pernicious and persistent fallacies people hold.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#237

Post by okmokmz »

fipar wrote: post #128
protonimitate wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings. If I recall correctly, a majority of people who have 'failed' suicide (for lack of a better term) have stated that they immediately regretted attempting once it hits the point of no return. This is just an assumption, but I think the will to live greatly outweigh…

> I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings. So does contraception, yet we don't consider people using it mentally ill. I only say this to imply that "going against our very nature" isprobably not the main reason we link suicide with mental ilness, not to be disrespectful or anything. My mother killed her…

>So does contraception, yet we don't consider people using it mentally ill.

I don't think contraception and suicide are in any way comparable. Taking a contraceptive enables to continue having sex, which is perfectly natural, without becoming pregnant. Yes, the fact that you won't become pregnant is "unnatural", but it is used so you can continue to experience a natural part of life with less risk. Suicide, on the other hand, does not have a similar risk/reward, response, or permanence. I could take a birth control pill knowing that I would still be able have a child in the future, and without an extreme response mentally or physically. However, if you point a loaded gun at yourself most people will automatically have an intense response that may include anxiety, fight or flight, fear, and self preservation. I understand the point you're trying to make, and I agree to some extent, but I disagree with that example as a counterpoint to protonimitate's comment

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#238

Post by smn1234 »

a5huynh wrote: post #231
smn1234 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the definition of depression is different, society to society. I'm certain a good amount of earth's human population has at one point in the course of their lives felt hopelessness, for whatever amount of time. The majority of those with access to TV who've also seen some American media have likely felt they're missing out on the riches and opportunities that can be had that they're not fortunate to. Is the def…

It is much, much more than feeling sad. Please take a look at what it means to be clinically depressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder

I've noted all the statements containing ' often accompanied ' and, ' may '

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#239

Post by DamnInteresting »

I have a hypothesis about this based on personal experience.

For creative people with an audience, there's this expectation from the audience that every thing you release to the world will be as good or better than what you did before, and that you will produce this brilliance on a reasonably consistent schedule. Any slip in quality (say, from experimenting with something new) or any delay in delivery, and the toxic parts of your audience will hurl their bile. You're labeled a burnout, or you're losing your edge. The people who didn't like your work in the first place openly relish your stumble.

Some creatives like to pretend that these critiques don't sting, and maybe some fortunate souls truly are immune. But it's human nature to build our self-image based on feedback from others, and a good self image can be essential for survival.

I feel like some creatives such as Bourdain try to meet the demands of the public, and keep upping their game and pushing, but that can't go on forever. Exhaustion, harsh self-criticism, and a sense of responsibility to one's audience combine into a caustic soup, and it shrivels the soul. One is expected to be increasingly brilliant even as one's energy diminishes to the effects of burnout. Quitting will just invite more cries of "failure!" It's unsustainable, and sometimes the part that breaks is the willingness to continue to bear it.

To any creative people suffering from this cycle, I think the best remedy is to make a "temporary" lateral move if you can. Move out of the spotlight and lend your skill to up-and-comers for a while. It's hard to get mad at that. And there's an odd comfort in knowing that you never have to go back, but the option is there when/if you're ready.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#240

Post by okmokmz »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #113
protonimitate wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings. If I recall correctly, a majority of people who have 'failed' suicide (for lack of a better term) have stated that they immediately regretted attempting once it hits the point of no return. This is just an assumption, but I think the will to live greatly outweigh…

I'm gonna stray away from talking about mental illness, cause I'm not a doctor and there are a lot of grey parts. Suicide is about giving up. There can be a number of reasons for throwing the towel in. For seemingly normal people, I tend to think it's because they feel like they have failed in a way that is irredeamable. Like the samurai guys, that have disgraced themselves and there is no way to go on without their…

>Suicide is about giving up. There can be a number of reasons for throwing the towel in.

This is one of the most accurate depictions of suicide that I've heard:

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

-David Foster Wallace

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