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'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

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Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#231
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reading of the negativity in this thread isn't "here is why I am opposed to your project" but rather "here is why your project seems like it will fail". The latter isn't anti-startup or pro-comcast at all.

...but why The Facebook? We already have MySpace. ...but why Dropbox? We already have google drive/OneDrive/WebDAV. ...but why an Airbnb? We already have BnBs, hotels, and hostels.

Which are all questions that the founders of Facebook, Dropbox, and Airbnb needed to answer to be successful. Questions are a contribution.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#233

There's an impressive amount of negativity in these comments. A community-run mesh network? HN should be all over it, but it appears to have turned into a bunch of network engineers telling us why they are very smart and it won't work, or is "insignificant". More power to you, NYC Mesh.

It would get a lot more positive comments if it was called what it is: A low-bandwidth mesh network. It's nice, but not going to replace ISPs anytime soon. It consumes more energy, it's slower, less reliable and higher latency than regular wired/fiber networks.

These things don't scale well and all those radios can be universally jammed by a single drone over the city. Not a great backup plan if you're anti-establishment.

I'd love to partake in such a project but keeping your expectations grounded is very important.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#234

Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…

God, this reply couldn't be worse:

"Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment."

No, it doesn't. Overly complex, corporatized infrastructures designed by committees in meetings - that takes significant capital investment. Simple infrastructure designed by hackers can achieve bullshit metrics like "five nines" without breaking the bank.

"And that's before you get into things like establishing colo at major IX points, serious core routers that cost $15k each"

Establishing colo at a "major IX point" is a few emails and phonecalls away. Your salesperson will fall all over him or herself and waive the NRCs to get you in there. It doesn't cost much, even for a full rack with 20 or 30 amps. If you're just doing networking, you won't even need that. Then you get a fiber cross connect to he.net for 10 or 20 or 40 gbps and you're in business.

You can buy very, very nice used routers and since you're a hacker and not Mr. Enterprisey IT guy, you can run it and support it yourself.

We had many iterations of this exact critique in our early days - explaining how we couldn't possibly deploy this volume of storage without fancy bullshit enterprise solutions from EMC or Compaq and how we couldn't possibly run a global storage network without fancy routers (we currently own zero routers) and fantastically complex clustering and failover ... and 17 years later we're still making it all work just fine.

Fuck those people. Fuck those school trained, passionless, non-hacker, no-talent-pussies.

Good luck with your mesh network!

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#235
post #108

Nice. Our 200+ unit condo building in Portland just got gigabit internet via line of sight radio on the roof from another building with fiber. This is a trend that will definitely take off and removes the huge barriers of entry that laying cable requires. 1ms latency too.

I understand you must be in USA, but I'm from Canada, and this trend is certainly very popular in most parts of Ontario. In the USA it's also catching on, have a look at Webpass. The Canadian equivalent would be Cloudwifi who offers gigabit service most condos and apartments built after 2005. http://cloudwifi.ca

Oh, on average these next generation networks have much lower latency than traditional cable and DSL lines.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#236
post #108

Nice. Our 200+ unit condo building in Portland just got gigabit internet via line of sight radio on the roof from another building with fiber. This is a trend that will definitely take off and removes the huge barriers of entry that laying cable requires. 1ms latency too.

I've got to know more about this. Who set it up? Local start up? Bored engineers?

Wave G. I think its a spin off a small isp.

Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that sounds about right -- we pay about $4k for 1gig midtown-midtown However GTT offered me 1gig from New York office to London Docklands for $2400! Under $2k for p2p to office in Washington DC. If local internet is $500pcm , get two lines into the building for $1k/month, charge 50 people $30 a month and give them 1 gig and 25:1 contention ratio, plus the cost of dropping the fibre and a router, leaving $6k a ye…

There are actually a lot more interesting things that you can do: Order an SDI video circuit from VZ to one of the interconnect buildings. That's $1.5K/mo but it is delivered as a point to point single mode fiber with VZ gear being plugged in. After they install it and leave unplug VZ gear. Plug in your 10G. You just got yourself a 10G transport for $1.5K/mo.

Remember, because it is SDI there's no way for VZ gear to know that it is actually unplugged.
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