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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

washingtonpost.com

231–240 of 273 posts

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#231
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

How are the disks counterfeit? As far as I understand they are functioning exactly like the 'official' disks. Etching the brand on them makes them more easily recognizable, as to what purpose they serve. There is no technical difference between the 'original' disk and the ones this person manufactured, so there is no possible intent to fool anyone. Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.…

> Intellectual property is impossible.

It's obvious that intellectual property is a social and legal construct, because the things considered property are intangible, but all other forms of property are also social and legal constructs.

Property is not merely possession -- it is the recognition by society and by the law that you have a right to possess things, and that those rights include preventing people from taking the things you possess.

If you look at the history of property rights in land, which are among the oldest and most fundamental property rights, you'll see how incredibly complicated they became, and how much they have changed over time, and how much of what we think is "just the way things are" is relatively new and does not exist for the reasons we think it does. The legacy of feudal land tenure in modern legal systems is a good example.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft's media creation tool is dead simple, you run it and tell it where to create the media. As long as you have a computer. Best answer for this is households who only have 1 functioning computer. Usually low-income households. One of my first jobs was working at a computer repair store. Customer would come in looking for a reformat and we'd give them a few options. - We'll restore (pay an hour or so of our t…

That's all true And he was not licensed to distribute Microsoft Software.

Interesting that this makes it illegal to download install media for a friend. So if someone locks themselves out of bitlocker, or the drive fails - they'd need to boot into a free operating system (say a live Linux distros that they could legally get from a friend) - and then download and make an install stick for Windows.

Because someone else lending them a ready-made windows USB key (from the free download ms offers) would be illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

So much for right to help with repair/fair use etc.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the disks counterfeit? As far as I understand they are functioning exactly like the 'official' disks. Etching the brand on them makes them more easily recognizable, as to what purpose they serve. There is no technical difference between the 'original' disk and the ones this person manufactured, so there is no possible intent to fool anyone. Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.…

> Intellectual property is impossible. It's obvious that intellectual property is a social and legal construct, because the things considered property are intangible, but all other forms of property are also social and legal constructs. Property is not merely possession -- it is the recognition by society and by the law that you have a right to possess things, and that those rights include preventing people from taki…

In the sense of digital property where a copy does not deprive the "owner" of anything its absurd someone can get in trouble for copying down bits of information. Its like if someone owned the number 43290 and every time you wrote down or typed that number you had to pay somebody because they "invented" it.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#234
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

I don't know what ticks other people off but the problem I have with this is not with the sentencing, but the fact that Microsoft decided it had nothing better to do than go after a guy who was actually trying to do some good by promoting recycling. It's not like we have an oversupply of that in this world.

Their objective and fiduciary responsibility is to their shareholders.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#235
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. He wasn't a hapless recycler. He was the CEO of a 100 person for profit company processing 41 million pounds of stuff from IBM, Motorola, and Sprint. He knew exactly what he was doing. Who do you think he was intending to sell these CDs to? His own company, of course. And why? To increase his profit by $25 a computer. There's no other logical explanation. No one would go through the trouble of exactly rep…

The article I read had him selling them for $0.25 per computer. $25 was the figure the court arrived at for the value of each disk. Other than that, your point is well taken. The portrayal of this guy as totally naive and well-intentioned is suspect.

$25 per computer is how much MS charges refurbishers, the GP's theory is that he intended to sell them to his own refurbishment company in order to save the $25 fee they'd otherwise have had to pay MS.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#236
post #171

Everybody is reading this wrong, which isn't a huge surprise because the Post seems to have nobody on hand who understands the facts of the case and relied on an interview with Lundgren heavily. He was not providing people with restore media they could use to fix their own machines. He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to comput…

> restore media likely voids that Windows license agreement.

I've bought plenty of Microsoft media in my lifetime. They will tell you the only thing that matters is the COA. If the COA came with the computer the license is still valid. He wasn't selling discs with counterfit COAs on them he was selling recycled restore disks to go with computers that already had a valid COA.

So unless there is something else in the ruling, I don't know child porn on the restore discs, the author has this story exactly right.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#237
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it needs rephrasing. There's a lot that can be argued when you phrase it as "counterfeit restore discs", but it's open-and-shut trademark infringement. I know that's not what Microsoft was arguing, but in reality that's closer to what the judge ended up going with when you account for the reduced "cost" per disc. Like he said in his defense, if he had labeled it "Eric's Restore Disc" instead of putting the De…

Like he said in his defense, if he had labeled it "Eric's Restore Disc" instead of putting the Dell and Windows logo on it, he probably would have skirted any real repercussions. I felt kind of bad about him going to prison until I read this, but that is some classic reasoning. When somebody is capable of justifying their criminality by just imagining away the main thing that makes it criminal, you need prison to tel…

There are a lot of options between $0 fines and 18 months.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#238
Aside from the legal technicalities and motivations of the parties in this case, the goal of prolonging the usable life of computers is incredibly laudable.

The continuing process by which otherwise functional hardware is made into trash simply because the market incentives don’t motivate the manufacturers to prioritize this is (borderline) tragic.

The way updates of operating systems require ever more powerful hardware drives me crazy. If prolonging the use of hardware was an explicit goal of the companies that make the operating systems, not only could a huge amount of waste be kept out of landfills, we could have devices whose performance increases over time.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the disks counterfeit? As far as I understand they are functioning exactly like the 'official' disks. Etching the brand on them makes them more easily recognizable, as to what purpose they serve. There is no technical difference between the 'original' disk and the ones this person manufactured, so there is no possible intent to fool anyone. Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible.…

> Nobody 'owns' a name or a logo. Intellectual property is impossible. I'm an ancap, so I completely agree with you from a moral perspective... but c'mon. We all know that's not how the law works.

> moral perspective

Really? Do you think that fraud is wrong?

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#240
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what ticks other people off but the problem I have with this is not with the sentencing, but the fact that Microsoft decided it had nothing better to do than go after a guy who was actually trying to do some good by promoting recycling. It's not like we have an oversupply of that in this world.

Their objective and fiduciary responsibility is to their shareholders.

If that were true, do you think they actually made any money off this process?
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