Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#231

Post by vubuntu » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

Some more important questions to ask :

Facebooks customers are the ad buyers. I and my data is the product. Mark says I should have control over which of my personal data is shared to whom.

1) But can I control which of my behavioral data (ad clicks, etc) can be collected and used by facebook and provided to the ad buyers? Can I say nothing be collected , even in anonymized manner?

2) Primary selling point to ad buyers is facebook provides them ability to do targeted advertisement. Granted over time facebook has limited discriminatory targeting (Race based, political inclination based) etc to comply with anti-discrimination laws. But as a user, do I have control over how I can be classified, what legal category labels facebook can apply on me and my data? And whether I want to be classified into any category at all ?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#232

Post by threatofrain » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #194

mrlala wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost a completely biased question. Objectively: who engages in hate speech? The far right. The far left may be overly accepting of everything, let's say.. they are not the ones engaging in hate speech. So it's no surprise that far right pages would be banned way more often than far left pages.

I'll take free speech. Who do you think you are? Who gets to draw the line between what is hate and what is not? You? Certainly not YOU! The opinions and the cultural fads you chase do not lend you any moral superiority. YOU have no right to judge. I piss all over your self-seeking ideology. Would you send me to the gulag if you could?

How may one speak to your children when you're not around? In other words, nearly every moment on the web...? Where is the red line? I think people are realizing just how much the web is shared.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#233

Post by function_seven » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

justinator wrote: post #212

fastball wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the ethnicity of Zuck's wife relevant?

The scenario is this: say my wife is a first generation Italian and I am the CEO of a really great new car company. If someone says, "This is a great car, I could never say, seeing an ITALIAN making such a car!" I would be embarrassed for the person saying this, as they don't know my family history (maybe I don't look Italian, I look like a viking, if one was to guess - which you shouldn't), and to be perfectly hones…

The senator didn't mention any specific country. Just said, "Only in America..."

I think you're reading a bit much into that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#234

Post by INTPenis » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #41

"Is it true facebook can track user browsers even after they are logged out of facebook?" Zuck: "I need to get back to you on that"

I'm surprised he didn't plead the fif.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#235

Post by almost_usual » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #105

The tenor, the awareness, the culture of questions that 70-year-old senators are turning to Zuckerberg at the congress would make you cheer for Facebook. Even if you previously hated it.

Most citizens don't care about the details of any technology they use on a day to day basis, they only want it to work correctly and enrich their lives.

Do you understand all the mechanics of an automobile? Ever worked on installing a new suspension for your car? Most people go to a shop to get this work done and even though they don't know details of the process they trust the mechanic to get the job done right.

How does this compare to Facebook? Well when you use Facebook you're entrusting the company with your private information, you expect nothing will go wrong and the product will enrich your life. There isn't really a "Yelp" for Social Media to know how many breaches they've had or if a competitor handles their data better than another. It's a lot easier to find a better mechanic shop based on a Yelp review than another Facebook.

> The tenor, the awareness, the culture of questions that 70-year-old senators are turning to Zuckerberg at the congress would make you cheer for Facebook. Even if you previously hated it.

I feel the opposite, these senators represent our citizens who want to know how their data is being handled. Disregarding their concerns because they lack knowledge into the technology isn't fair, it's elitist.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#236

Post by munk-a » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #221

I'm an extremely reluctant Facebook user (having recently moved countries, my whole family and all my friends are on it). I strongly dislike the company; I don't trust the CEO. My use of the platform is in moderation and occurs within a Firefox container. > Zuckerberg (opening testimony): I failed. I'm sorry. All of that being said, that's some serious growth in maturity, and I'd like to see more of it across the tec…

A good friend of mine once told me to "stop apologizing and fix it" when I was in middle school. Reflecting on that made me realize how empty apologies can be and spurred some self improvement.

It's not as if Zuckerberg could've shown up today with a patch file and gone through how he hacked the problems out of the platform last night with some red bull. But the apologies need to be seen as empty and we've all got to make sure things actually change.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#237

Post by pcunite » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

m52go wrote: post #59

ibejoeb wrote: post #18

I guess I'm still confused about this matter. As I understand it, nothing was exploited. A company used intrinsic capabilities of the system to do a job. Are we just raising the question of whether this is an appropriate business model? I suppose that's a good discussion to have. I'm just a bit miffed that we're effectively holding another obscenities hearing while the only thing going on with the Equifax debacle is…

The way Cambridge Analytica's got its data was a little nefarious...as I understand it, they obtained data through ways Facebook discouraged (but still enabled). Whether you consider that an 'exploit' or not is subjective. It's certainly not an 'exploit' in the more common infosec sense. But the real issue here is that Facebook was complicit in electing Donald Trump. It's political.

The real issue is that, as noted by Thom Tillis, this "feature" was most likely used by others, up to and including, the Obama campaign.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#238

Post by nopriorarrests » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

lakechfoma wrote: post #153

fbonetti wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a really odd line of questioning from people who don't seem to understand the subject matter. This gem made me laugh out loud: Senator: How do you sustain a business model in which users don't pay for your service? Zuckerberg (in a disdainful tone): Senator, we run ads. https://clips.twitch.tv/FantasticCrowdedDelicataPipeHype Edit: I directly transcribed the exchange

I think he was trying to get at something here though: can you run a business that is free for some people and isn't ad based? To which I think the answer could be nuanced. Maybe a large enough population pays $4/month and can thus subsidize some part of the population that doesn't have that privilege. Note I'm not actually advocating that, just saying I want to give the guy a benefit of the doubt that he was trying…

>large enough population pays $4/month and can thus subsidize some part of the population

Just in case, FB ARPU in US in Q4 2017 was $27. People who talk about "i ready to pay 10$ per year if im not tracked and not exposed to ads" _seriously_ underestimate FB money-printing ability.

Think about it, FB makes almost as much as NFLX per US user (admittedly in Q4, the hottest quarter in advertising), but you dont need to enter your credit card. At all.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#239

Post by paxys » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:25 PM UTC

baalimago wrote: post #54

Mark Zuckerberg does not believe he has a monopoly. He believes there is an alternative to Facebook in the way that different car manufacturers have different competitors. Surely he can't mean this, right?

If we're talking globally then Facebook is quite obviously not a monopoly.

Just within the US, I guess you have to conclusively define what it has a monopoly in, i.e. what is "social networking". For online messaging there is iMessage, Hangouts, Skype, Snapchat. Photo sharing - Snapchat again, Twitter, probably even just email. For videos there is YouTube. For maps and check-ins there is Foursquare, Yelp. And the concept of having an online identity tying all these services together is done by Google as well.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg testifies before Congress

#240

Post by seagull » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:25 PM UTC

drexlspivey wrote: post #158

I call BS on actual deleting all user data when someone deletes his account. If some whistle blower proves otherwise is he liable for prosecution for perjury?

I worked on this system. It takes several months because it's infeasible to purge old backups etc, but eventually it's all gone. The process for deleting accounts is separate from the normal content deletion process and is quite robust.