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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#231

Post by flukus »

sparkie wrote: post #33
gscott wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean buying in bulk. Buying in bulk is great but often not because if it is food it might go bad before you eat it and if you are poor your limited on space... so huge packs of items don't fit well in your tiny space. Plus the up front cost is a real killer since the money is saved over time. And if you have more of something you might end up using more because it's convenient. And finally if you are spli…

There's a subtle difference between "buying in bulk" and "keeping a reasonable stock". I grew up in a quite poor family and my parents are terrible with money. One thing that frustrated me to no end is that they would almost never buy something ahead of time. An item would literally have to run out before they'd consider buying its replacement, which meant I'd regularly get in the shower in the morning to find there…

> You'd end up going to a local convenience store and paying 2x the price for the item because you need it now. Your grocery budget becomes hugely inflated, and you still end up buying the same necessities.

I see this at a lot at my local 7-11, many poorer people do a lot of their grocery shopping there even though an aldi is 5 minutes walk away (so it's actually closer for some of them, literally across the road) and three other supermarkets are under 15 minutes walk. I suspect there is some sort of psychological effect (possibly from advertising) that is compelling them to go to 7-11 instead of somewhere cheaper and that they aren't making a conscious financial decision.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#232

Post by Arn_Thor »

hueving wrote: post #205
runako wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this modulo American healthcare means a lot of people who follow this script still end up with nothing. This is especially the case for entry-level jobs and other careers that are more available to the newly arrived. If you work in a median-income job and are miserly for a long time and save up a year's income, you will have around $60k in the bank. Since you don't have a pension, materially all of this will b…

>But this has not been the case except for the last 7ish years, Useful health insurance existed before the ACA.

just limited by local availability, cost, coverage restrictions, preexisting conditions,etc. Simple, right?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#233

Post by RobertRoberts »

Waterluvian wrote: post #52
redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

I have a safety net and it has enabled me to take risks I never would have if failure meant homelessness for my family. I think that's why all the trimmings of a "socialist" society are so attractive to me. I hear what you're saying. You felt motivated because there was nothing to enable your coasting. But it can also work in the other direction.

Unfortunately taking risks to better yourself and having it work out are the exception not the rule. And I have to assume that a non-socialist society supports this better in almost every way, based on historical evidence in my own head. (flawed as that may be)

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#234

Post by Arn_Thor »

MrLeap wrote: post #73
autokad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i grew up poor, and it was frustrating to see the stupid mistakes my family and people around me would make over, and over, and over. then people like the researchers in this article say infuriating things like 'their bad decisions are just because they are cognitively tired, and actually many of them could be even considered shrewd!" being cognitively tired does play a role, but more so because they are cognitively…

Also grew up poor, and seen people of all income levels be cognitively lazy. I felt like I really started to get the way success works when I saw successful people waste money. I saw individuals make flippant decisions to throw away 50,000$ on software that their organization will never use. MSDN licenses for 100 people that can't and never will code. I've seen a salary man whose job it was to install software on tab…

What's your method of assessing whether the bad choices come from being cognitively tired or cognitively lazy? What's the marker you look for?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#236

Post by psyc »

throwaway1748 wrote: post #207
so33 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the top posts in this very comments section at the moment contradicts your claim.

Not seeing the comment you're referring to. But my point is that a broader cultural phenomenon is occurring where successful folks are demonized and individual accomplishments are considered more a function of one's 'privilege' than hard work.

Hard work is one of those things that's necessary, but not sufficient, so it all but begs for survivor bias. It may well have been the case in the past, when the economy was less abstract, that hard work could translate directly into material necessities (provided you were privileged to own land!) As far as I can tell, that's simply not the case in a society like this one.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#237

Post by madez »

Trade is not a zero-sum game, in sum we gain. Cooperation leads to synergy. The sick and poor cost money. Having that in mind, I cannot understand why a country wouldn't give food and money and shelter to the poor. Without shelter, you get sick and can barely work. Without money, you are stressed and get sick. Without food, you get sick and can't work. It's obvious that even the hard working people have a better life when society helps the less fortunates ones. So, why on earth wouldn't a country do it? That would be unethical, irrational and economical madness.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#238

Post by psyc »

louprado wrote: post #35
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

While there may be HN readers who have little income and possessions and are therefore living in "poverty", true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve. If you are really feeling hopeless you don't turn to HN for news on the latest programming frameworks.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Even when I've been at my lowest, I doubt there's been a day that I didn't check HN. It's just an addiction.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#239

Post by tensor_rank_0 »

tmnvix wrote: post #199
tensor_rank_0 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you listed a bunch of advantages of wealth that I dont think anyone would dispute. and you talk about taking that away. how is this supposed to help people who are already impoverished? it seems like you want there to be more people in poverty, not fewer. > http://www.templetons.com/brad/billg.html riddled with fallacies and calculated to produce envy. totally irrelevant to our discussion.

> you listed a bunch of advantages of wealth that I dont think anyone would dispute. and you talk about taking that away. That is a non sequitur.

I don't understand what you mean.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#240

Post by eecc »

alsetmusic wrote: post #143
chaostheory wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I see people screaming and walking down the streets talking to themselves, I see people that need love If they're talking to themselves, they need more than that. They probably need to be cared for in a mental institution. Unfortunately the overall national trend has been funding cuts, with the irony being that it doesn't save money overall; since the costs are just shifted over to hospitals and other emergenc…

> If they're talking to themselves, they need more than that. They probably need to be cared for in a mental institution. Bullshit. There are many people capable of losing touch with reality who live normal lives thanks to medication.

I guess the institution should be a transitory step in a social reintroduction process, not an asylum where to lock them away. (hopefully a system that does not chronicize them to assure funding streams.)
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