Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates • Hacker News Board

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#231

Post by moduspol » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

fhood wrote: post #228

moduspol wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assault rifles are automatic. We haven't been seeing automatic weapons in mass shootings. You might mean "assault weapon," but that's a poorly-defined political term that can include cosmetic attachments and colors. And plenty of people get AR-15s for home defense.

You are missing OP's point. A shotgun is a far better home defense weapon than an AR-15. So is a handgun. The AR-15 was very carefully designed for intermediate range combat.

It depends. The best gun is the one you're most familiar with shooting. If the one you'll spend the most time shooting is an AR-15, then it's that one.

It's also irrelevant. Home protection isn't the only reason you'd have a gun in a rural setting. They're also quite excellent for keeping groundhogs and coyotes off of one's property, and for recreational purposes.

This mindset of people who know nothing about guns (e.g. not knowing what an assault rifle is) claiming "You should only be allowed to have what I think you need" is the exact problem at the heart of this discussion.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#232

Post by moduspol » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

Djvacto wrote: post #226

moduspol wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assault rifles are automatic. We haven't been seeing automatic weapons in mass shootings. You might mean "assault weapon," but that's a poorly-defined political term that can include cosmetic attachments and colors. And plenty of people get AR-15s for home defense.

But people don't need AR-15s for home defense. Muskets would be fine for home defense, and coincidentally were what was standard at the time the 2nd amendment was passed. People don't need anything more than a musket/shotgun type weapon for home defense, and we need to have laws that make sure the process to get these prevents them from getting put in the hands of the wrong people.

The second amendment wasn't passed for home defense, nor should our basis of law be "what people unfamiliar with guns think others should use for home defense."

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#233

Post by mattferderer » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

vanilla_nut wrote: post #123

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

On the other hand, I come from a rural area and I feel that college was absolutely worth it for me, even with the huge bill that I had to pay myself. (I graduated fairly recently) College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself, and people generally thought I was a responsible kid growing up. I finally found myself in a place where I could make friends who shared interest…

> It's important to keep in mind that college is meant to enrich people as individuals, not explicitly prepare them for jobs.

This should be highlighted. I believe college is a great luxury. Is it necessary? No. Can you learn job requirements faster elsewhere? Yes.

I wish K-12 were more like college in the sense that you have some guidelines but otherwise you're basically in a large library. You get to run around & try learning different things that interest you for a few years. It makes you more well rounded as an individual. This is something few people appreciate at a young age. I didn't fully appreciate it until I was older but I did enjoy the diverse opportunities at the time.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#234

Post by sctb » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #91

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so. The state takes our taxes and runs the schools. The rural areas get little funding for their schools, even for the same size school (the same tax base approximately). No, its city folks voting all the money to their schools. Its democracy, but its not pretty.

You’re delusional. Rural voters get more tax dollars per person. Look it up. Look at red states vs blue. You reak of entitlement.

If you won't start posting according to the guidelines we'll ban the account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#235

Post by grigjd3 » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

I really didn't get the impression the author was viewing those without a college degree as inferior. I got the impression the author was noting the relative underrepresentation of rural students in college and examining causes.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#236

Post by AlwaysRock » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

I grew up in Vermont. Throwing very rough numbers out here but 30% of my graduating high school class went to college, 40% joined some branch of the military, and 30% are still living in the same town.

I don't love the military and the way we use it as a country but it does provide a lot of people an alternative to college and a way to get out.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#237

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #236

I grew up in Vermont. Throwing very rough numbers out here but 30% of my graduating high school class went to college, 40% joined some branch of the military, and 30% are still living in the same town. I don't love the military and the way we use it as a country but it does provide a lot of people an alternative to college and a way to get out.

If you really work the system, the military can be an EXCELLENT opportunity. Likewise, if you need structure, they’ll certainly give it to you.

Some people go in without a plan, do 4-6 years and get out just as aimless as we went in, but by now they are grown and the responsibility for their lives is entirely their own. It’s like trade school, or coding boot camp, or college, you get out what you put in.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#238

Post by tonyedgecombe » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

vanilla_nut wrote: post #123

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

On the other hand, I come from a rural area and I feel that college was absolutely worth it for me, even with the huge bill that I had to pay myself. (I graduated fairly recently) College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself, and people generally thought I was a responsible kid growing up. I finally found myself in a place where I could make friends who shared interest…

College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself

I often here this but I'm somewhat sceptical. I'm not saying you didn't turn into and adult, rather that you would have done that whether you went to college or not.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#239

Post by grigjd3 » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

throwawayfjk wrote: post #178

jacobolus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you quote the part that you feel is condescending? The text of the article seems largely straightforward and factual to me. It doesn’t say that there’s anything inherently bad about not going to college, but rather that not having a college degree has made it difficult for some people to find new careers in places where many types of labor are facing declining demand because of large structural forces, and that t…

I would assume that the rural are rational to the same degree as anyone else, so the statistical difference mostly means they find college less beneficial relative to their opportunities. There is too much of an agenda feel to this piece, from the title to selective interviews and statistics

What agenda is it you see in this? I mean, the author seems to believe that higher education is a net good thing, which you can disagree with if you like. A lot of people seem to disagree though evidenced by gifts made to universities, the effort put into going to college, etc. I thoroughly enjoyed college (went on to get a PhD in physics) and I never viewed it in terms of job training. For me, it was the first time I heard solid rational conservative arguments that made me think hard about my positions on social and economic issues.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#240

Post by thousandautumns » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #231

fhood wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing OP's point. A shotgun is a far better home defense weapon than an AR-15. So is a handgun. The AR-15 was very carefully designed for intermediate range combat.

It depends. The best gun is the one you're most familiar with shooting. If the one you'll spend the most time shooting is an AR-15, then it's that one. It's also irrelevant. Home protection isn't the only reason you'd have a gun in a rural setting. They're also quite excellent for keeping groundhogs and coyotes off of one's property, and for recreational purposes. This mindset of people who know nothing about guns (e…

> It depends. The best gun is the one you're most familiar with shooting. If the one you'll spend the most time shooting is an AR-15, then it's that one.

So what you are saying is that banning the AR-15 shouldn't be problematic for people, because they can simply become familiar with other options like shotguns, making them the best gun for them?

> It's also irrelevant. Home protection isn't the only reason you'd have a gun in a rural setting. They're also quite excellent for keeping groundhogs and coyotes off of one's property, and for recreational purposes.

> This mindset of people who know nothing about guns (e.g. not knowing what an assault rifle is) claiming "You should only be allowed to have what I think you need" is the exact problem at the heart of this discussion.

I think the exact problem is not "you should only be allowed to have what I think you need". Every regulation and law in existence is a variation of "you should only be allowed to do X to the extent I think you need". A speed limit is functionally equivalent to the statement "you should only be allowed to drive as fast as I think you need". They are all attempts at balancing utility (how fast you can drive) and costs for yourself and those around you (getting in a crash).

The actual problem is the mindset of people like yourself claiming the utility of weapons like the AR-15 for tasks like groundhog control and recreation outweighs the costs of AR-15s being used to take human lives.