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Dow plunges 1000 points

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231–240 of 365 posts

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like it might be in the top 100 though. Considering these are changes per day , and the chart covers around 100 years or 25,000 trading days, this puts it in the top 0.4% of largest percentage daily losses. So, it does appear to be a significant losing day if 99.6% of such days are smaller in magnitude.

About 0.3% of days are my birthday.

well, happy birthday to you then!

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um... by reducing spending.

The current admin has proposed a multi billion dollar wall (turns out we will pay for that after all), a trillion dollar infrastructure project, and increases in military spending. What is this "reduced spending" you're talking about?

This is where the opposing view will typically point at social programs, for starters. I suspect that no amount of feasible cuts to social programs would fully subsidize the spending that you mentioned and reduce the deficit but don't have the numbers.

To their point though, a person could reasonably support the tax cuts and seek to reduce the deficit on the premise that reduced spending would satisfy the latter over time. Whether or not the current administration is making a genuine attempt to do so is a separate argument and one that their comment did not mention.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#233
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On some level, though, all of retirement is a little ponzi-like; ultimately you're always relying on the current working population to pay for your retirement, no matter what investments you put into your pension fund. Well, no, not really. You're relying on the fact that you own some assets, which you can sell to someone else who wants to own those assets. That's very much not "ponzi-like".

Those assets only produce income because of the current working population. This isn't strictly required of course, but it has been the case for a long time and is likely to remain mostly true for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait for post-scarcity. We need something to replace money. Not bitcoin, more something like community asset management.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#234
post #3

I do worry that this is the end of the current bull market and we'll be entered into a recession in the next half year or so.

Stock market corrections do not always lead to or cause a recession (or vice versa). Many Americans do not even own stocks, so something like today will be a passing news item barely noticed. If you think a recession is coming, what will be the trigger(s)? Right now companies are making money, wages are finally growing, and jobless claims are near what some would say is full employment. The only real euphoria I see i…

1) Increase in interest rates.

2) Cut in discretionary spending in order to pay for the tax cuts. This in turn then slows the economy down.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top rate before was 39.6% for over 480k, over 480k now hits the 35% and 37% mark and that is a HUGE difference. Let's only consider how that effects the top 1% and a rough estimate. Currently that's around 1.73M filers with an average income of 1.4M a year. Under the new tax rules the average 1% will save $40,000 over 480k (will obviously save more under 480k but not counting that). That totals out to be $692B in…

Your math is off by one magnitude. $40k * 1.73 million people = $69.2 billion. Unless I'm missing something?

It's 69.2B per year, 692B over 10 years. The tax cut deficit is stated over 10 years at 1.5T without the economic benifits and 1T over 10 years with benifits scored at standard and 500B with benifits scored with dynamic.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#237
post #221

I would not have worried too much of a Dow correction, but I feel like a trifecta of events are coming together that is a bit concerning. First, is the explosion of US government deficit which could potentially lead to austerity measures in the near future. Second is the threat of inflation and overheating. And third is the plunging savings rate of individuals. It almost appears that these three are moving to a confl…

Well, all of Europe has been suffering under austerity for something like 10 years now. My money is on that it will come to the US.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top rate before was 39.6% for over 480k, over 480k now hits the 35% and 37% mark and that is a HUGE difference. Let's only consider how that effects the top 1% and a rough estimate. Currently that's around 1.73M filers with an average income of 1.4M a year. Under the new tax rules the average 1% will save $40,000 over 480k (will obviously save more under 480k but not counting that). That totals out to be $692B in…

Your math is off by one magnitude. $40k * 1.73 million people = $69.2 billion. Unless I'm missing something?

"$692B in tax cuts over 10 years" is what GP said

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#239
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wasn't a big fan of the tax cuts, even though I'll see the proceeds from them. Some think that the less you pay, the better, all the way to zero. So I take it you’ll be paying extra on your federal taxes next year and earmarking the difference for the federal debt or other things you find worthwhile?

That line of questioning frequently appears in these arguments. I find it disingenuous because if I did pay extra towards my federal taxes, I still (after rounding) have inherited the same amount of future obligation and I should expect, as taxes are invariably raised in the future, that I would be expected to pay towards that future obligation as well. Arguing that we should all collectively pay more does not requir…

The other stupidity of that line is what difference will it make it I paid more tax voluntarily? Obviously bugger all. But should the middle/upper society all pay more it gives the govt significantly more resources to better society. Its a willingness for personal sacrifice for the greater good, not personal sacrifice for no good.

Can these people ever see tax as a value proposition? Wasted tax dollar are bad. But if you pay 5% more and get universal healthcare and get a liveable social security safety net that seems OK to me.

Further this attitude that its 'taking money I earnt' need to understand they are driving on roads that were built by generations ahead of them. Using sewers that their grandfathers laid, often on tax dollars. Benefiting from the political freedoms people literally fought and died for. Etc. If they want to claim the money earn is theirs the should go to someplace completely unoccupied and carve out an existence. See how much success they create truly on their own back. Maybe then they can understand we are all standing on the shoulders of those that came before us and that opportunity/system needs to be paid for and ideally continued to be improved upon.

Re: Dow plunges 1000 points

#240

I hate to be nitpicking about good news, but the S&P 500 is down less than 7% from it's peak, that's hardly a crash. Especially after gaining 26% over the previous year. And, after increasing over 90% the last 5 years. Obviously, either way a decline in the stock market indexes is good news for almost everyone. I'm hoping for a real crash as I need to save lots more money, not just for my retirement but also for my k…

There was a flash-crash that started around 3PM EST and recovered by 3:16

That's a tiny eternity by flash crash standards.
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