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Lessons of an MIT Education

math.tamu.edu

231–240 of 263 posts

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#231
post #6

The author was quite harsh on the soft sciencies and humanities and I'm going to attempt a defense. First, he characterises these subjects as merely what, facts to be learned, instead of how, skills to be mastered. Let's take history, which seems very what, full of dates and names. A great course in history teaches you how to think differently and with deeper context about world events and your country's politics. I…

>>A great course in history teaches you how to think differently and with deeper context about world events and your country's politics.

Context matters. If you are studying history when you are about to be promoted to be the general of your army, or pursuing a career in diplomacy these things make sense in the context of your career.

For general folks the value of this information for all practical purposes is zero. Compared to say an education in STEM where many concepts can readily used applied across other disciplines, as its just Math at the end of they day.

For this very reason, some civil engineering graduate can pick CS way easily than say with a graduate degree in history.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#232
post #53
post #41

> Lesson Six: You must measure up to a very high level of performance. I can imagine a propective student or parent asking, "Why should I (or my child) take calculus at MIT rather than at Oshkosh College? Isn't the material practically identical, no matter where it is taught, while the cost varies a great deal?" Is there any truth to this? Because it seem like classical university jingoism to me. "My institution is b…

I can't speak for MIT, but I can speak for a couple of Ivies. The content covered in the curriculum and the speed at which it is covered is one potentially challenging aspect of one school over another. The more important aspect, imho, is your peers. Speaking for myself and what I have heard others experience, peers can push your thinking to more sophisticated levels -- this can be in terms of something like elegance…

> It took him a few minutes just to realize that the test covered the same topics, while I thought the test was merely "hard" pedestrian content. Once I talked him through the problem, he realized how cool it was, and then he realized one of the key differences between our schools -- the boundaries of my thinking on topics were challenged and stretched much, much more aggressively.

Well as long as you were able to demonstrate that you were better than him, it's all OK.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#234
post #81

MIT is a very good school, but shouldn't be fetishised. After several years of hiring people in the Boston area, I've seen just as many mediocre MIT grads as mediocre BU grads. In fact, the only person at my company to be fired for incompetence was an MIT graduate

was the person incompetent or did he/she not get along

Surprisingly they were hired because they got along. It took a while for people to get their heads around the fact that such a nice guy simply was not capable of learning new things

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#235

An insightful list, but one part bugs me: the approval of working so hard you can't stay awake. This is bad for learning, and apparently there are even experiments showing that it's bad -- which casts an ironic light on the part of this list about demonstrably knowing things vs. bullshitting. Maybe there's a deeper reason it's good, but I'm skeptical.

Indeed. I thought Lesson 8 was simply a statement of institutional-scale masochism. >MIT students often complain of being overworked, and they are right. When I look at the schedules of courses my advisees propose at the beginning of each term, I wonder how they can contemplate that much work. My workload was nothing like that when I was an undergraduate. Ok. How is that at all healthy, not just medically but academi…

[deleted]

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#236
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mischaracterizing humanities as not falsifiable as if it should be like mathematics. The content is not wrong in the same way a math question is, but many humanities classes are explicitly about taking arguments presented in essays, books, journals, by the government, by public interest groups, by private industry, and testing them against "objective reality and truth that exists around them." No human…

>No humanities course just takes every argument at face value. Every argument is subject to intense scrutiny Here is Orwell on the matter: >"When the nautical screw was first invented, there was a controversy that lasted for years as to whether screw-steamers or paddle-steamers were better. The paddle-steamers, like all obsolete things, had their champions, who supported them by ingenious arguments. Finally, however,…

That is argument for experimentation against theorizing. Math people have awful habit of theorizing and even rejecting experiment that is right there in front of their eyes. They will argue for hours based on what systems/people/departments are assumed to do in simplistic model they did in their head, ignoring what is actually happening. They are also masters in cherry picking when it comes to history and it is especially bad when they talk about history.

They also have tendency to take conflict like the above, completely ignore politics and motivations that drives the arguments (meaning involved money), pretend it was all technical question people magically could not figure out until someone did something simple.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious to see if he'd actually said that or if you were misrepresenting a more reasonable claim. I'm not familiar with Jordan Peterson but managed to find this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV2yvI4Id9Q ... in which he says that high-powered careers are very unpleasant due to hyper-competition among people who are exceptionally willing to tilt their work-life balance way toward work, and that most (but…

Thanks for the link! This thing is hilarious! About 7:00: " And you think when you're 19, 'cause you're so clueless when you're 19, you don't know a bloody thing, you think, "well, I'm not really sure I want children anyway". Like, oh, yeah, you can tell how well you have been educated. Jesus. Dismal. Dismal. Without fail. " I've watched women go through their professional careers, many, many of them. It's a very rar…

The funny implied that interest in kids and being agreeable are kind same thing is not even funny. Where is that particular bs coming from?

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1-2. I know the tests are administered to school children. But academic success in school translates to academic success later in life. 3. What makes you think that MIT would be more elite than elite universities in other countries? Talent follows a normal distribution and if PISA and TIMMS show that the American mean is below the average, the American elite must also be below the average. So, if the most gifted Amer…

You make a big deal about how secondary school rankings show that Americans are idiots and use that to guess that university rankings should similarly show that American universities are poor quality. Which is obviously why only 12 of the top 25 schools, and 4 of the top 4, are American. I'd cite the logic failures in your argument as well, but I think letting actual statistics speak for themselves works better. And…

Secondary school rankings show Americans are below the average. I never claimed that the quality of the alumni correlated with the quality of the school. The GP did. My point is that if you want to rank schools by how smart their students are, then no American institution would rank in the top 10. So you need to find a better metric if you want to claim that MIT is best of the best.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#239
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think other countries does not also have "elite" universities? China and India has five times the population of the US and several universities which are harder to get into than MIT. Fwiw, I don't believe in the theory of the GP. Math is a subject best done by yourself so what your peers know or not doesn't matter, imho.

Scroll through, and just take note of how many are American, vs other. Choose any international university ranking, I leave the following on just as an example. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

Such rankings are bullshit and easily gamed.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#240
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mischaracterizing humanities as not falsifiable as if it should be like mathematics. The content is not wrong in the same way a math question is, but many humanities classes are explicitly about taking arguments presented in essays, books, journals, by the government, by public interest groups, by private industry, and testing them against "objective reality and truth that exists around them." No human…

>No humanities course just takes every argument at face value. Every argument is subject to intense scrutiny Here is Orwell on the matter: >"When the nautical screw was first invented, there was a controversy that lasted for years as to whether screw-steamers or paddle-steamers were better. The paddle-steamers, like all obsolete things, had their champions, who supported them by ingenious arguments. Finally, however,…

How is that Orwell "on the matter" of humanities vs. hard science?

> People lived for a very long time without a proper appreciation of controlled, repeatable experiments, and progress was very slow.

And now that we strive to only see what we can count and repeat, and worship our own creations as objective reality, progress seems to shift into the pathological. Even just the concept of "progress" as some kind of thing you can get more and more of, rather than a journey on an tree with infinite branches every moment, is in lockstep with that and betrays an incredible impoverishment of thought. Every single great scientist who also loved wisdom seems to have pointed out something along those lines which mediocre scientists seem to ignore.

Hannah Arendt in Vita Activa has a bunch of relevant parts, here is one:

> The rise of the natural sciences is credited with a demonstrable, ever-quickening increase in human knowledge and power; shortly before the modern age European mankind knew less than Archimedes in the third century B.C., while the first fifty years of our century have witnessed more important discoveries than all the centuries of recorded history together. Yet the same phenomenon is blamed with equal right for the hardly less demonstrable increase in human despair or the specifically modern nihilism which has spread to ever larger sections of the population, their most significant aspect perhaps being that they no longer spare the scientists themselves, whose well-founded optimism could still, in the nineteenth century, stand up against the equally justifiable pessimism of thinkers and poets. The modern astrophysical world view, which began with Galileo, and its challenge to the adequacy of the senses to reveal reality, have left us a universe of whose qualities we know no more than the way they affect our measuring instruments, and — in the words of Eddington — "the former have as much resemblance to the latter as a telephone number has to a subscriber." Instead of objective qualities, in other words, we find instruments, and instead of nature or the universe — in the words of Heisenberg — man encounters only himself.

> [The German physicist Werner Heisenberg has expressed this thought in a number of recent publications. For instance: "Wenn man versucht, von der Situation in der modernen Naturwissenschaft ausgehend, sich zu den in Bewegung geratenen Fundamenten vorzutasten, so hat man den Eindruck, ... dass zum erstenmal im Laufe der Geschichte der Mensch auf dieser Erde nur noch sich selbst gegenübersteht ... , daß wir gewissermassen immer nur uns selbst begegnen" (Das Naturbild der heutigen Pkysik [1955], pp. 17-18). Heisenberg's point is that the observed object has no existence independent of the observing subject: "Durch die Art der Beobachtung wird entschieden, welche Züge der Natur bestimmt werden und welche wir durch unsere Beobachtungen verwischen" (Wandlungen in den Grundlagen der Naturwissenschaft [1949], p. 67).]

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My sloppy/literal translation of Heisenberg:

"When one attempts, beginning with the situation of modern science, to feel towards the fundaments that have been set in motion, one gets the impression [..] that for the first time in history man on this Earth is only facing himself [..] that we kind of only meet ourselves"

and

"the type of observation determines which traits of nature are defined and which traits we muddle with our observations"

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