After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America • Hacker News Board

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#231

Post by iamatworknow » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #198

iamatworknow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live in rural upstate New York. When a longtime friend of mine found out that I would soon be leaving to live in a big city in the south he yelled at me, called me an idiot, and said I would get raped and murdered there. This is a guy in his mid-30's who has only ever visited a place with more than 10,000 people once, so his entire perception of what it's like in urban America is based off of the salaciou…

As someone who recently moved to this city, he's not entirely wrong...in 2 years and without ever going to the "bad" parts of mine, I've been mugged in broad daylight, my roommate was assaulted randomly for no reason after his car broke down, I've had a guy threaten to kill me and follow me around when he sees me, and I get a postcard in the mail every other week or so telling me about another one of the homeless guy…

I'm sorry that you've experienced that kind of thing, but hopefully you also realize that not every urban area is like this, and maybe your neighborhood is or is becoming less "good" than you originally believed when you moved there.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#232

Post by notyourday » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #223

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Surely globalism is having some measurable impact on the capability of rural populations to find work and make a living." Globalism has had a huge, positive impact on the ability of many rural populations to find work by allowing them to no longer be rural populations. Look at how the growth of outsourced manufacturing in China led to the largest migration in human history, as dirt-poor subsistence farmers were able…

Sure, that's great for China and the countries where globalism has positively impacted those rural populations but there isn't much accounting for those populations that are left behind at home.

That's because rural Chinese or Cambodian makes a lot less than a rural American described in this article.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#233

Post by CryptoPunk » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

balance_factor wrote: post #220

CryptoPunk wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had The empirical evidence would suggest the opposite: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

The percentage going to military spending out of total government spending is only as small as it is on the chart if it's decided to try to have a very narrow view of what constitutes military spending, but a broad view of what can fit in other categories. If you include not just DoD spending, but DoD retiree and healthcare, veteran's benefits, interest on the debt of previous military spending, the defense-oriented…

Agreed. Though the point about interest from debt incurred from military spending could equally apply to all other spending categories so wouldn't change the proportions.

In any case, the largest area of spending growth has been social and entitlement programs, even if one excludes veterans-related social spending and controls for the effect of demographic changes on entitlement outlays.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#234

Post by alexanderstears » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #213

alexanderstears wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. If you think that's true then it is, right? I have dissident rightist view points. I hang out with dissident rightists. I've never once heard them say that UBI is worse than the status quo, and I think pairing UBI with reduced low-skill immigration is something 95% of them could get behind. Sure, the Paul Ryans and Pelosis of the…

Most of my right wing friends are the Ayn Rand kind and are deeply offended by the idea of paying other people to live.

Ask them whether they'd prefer UBI or the current system assuming both cost the same.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#235

Post by ocb » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #198

iamatworknow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live in rural upstate New York. When a longtime friend of mine found out that I would soon be leaving to live in a big city in the south he yelled at me, called me an idiot, and said I would get raped and murdered there. This is a guy in his mid-30's who has only ever visited a place with more than 10,000 people once, so his entire perception of what it's like in urban America is based off of the salaciou…

As someone who recently moved to this city, he's not entirely wrong...in 2 years and without ever going to the "bad" parts of mine, I've been mugged in broad daylight, my roommate was assaulted randomly for no reason after his car broke down, I've had a guy threaten to kill me and follow me around when he sees me, and I get a postcard in the mail every other week or so telling me about another one of the homeless guy…

What kind of psychopath-filled nightmare land do you live in?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#236

Post by rgrieselhuber » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #232

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's great for China and the countries where globalism has positively impacted those rural populations but there isn't much accounting for those populations that are left behind at home.

That's because rural Chinese or Cambodian makes a lot less than a rural American described in this article.

Hence one of the critiques of globalism.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#237

Post by bmurphy1976 » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #198

iamatworknow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live in rural upstate New York. When a longtime friend of mine found out that I would soon be leaving to live in a big city in the south he yelled at me, called me an idiot, and said I would get raped and murdered there. This is a guy in his mid-30's who has only ever visited a place with more than 10,000 people once, so his entire perception of what it's like in urban America is based off of the salaciou…

As someone who recently moved to this city, he's not entirely wrong...in 2 years and without ever going to the "bad" parts of mine, I've been mugged in broad daylight, my roommate was assaulted randomly for no reason after his car broke down, I've had a guy threaten to kill me and follow me around when he sees me, and I get a postcard in the mail every other week or so telling me about another one of the homeless guy…

Well I've been living in Chicago for almost 20 years now and I've only been murdered a couple times. Happens to millions of people in this city every day don't you know?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#238

Post by MaysonL » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #49

ianai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Inflation isn’t the outright awful thing people assume it is. Further, the concept is to give people just enough to survive. That creates demand for only the basics. The basics are largely standardized items. When was the last time there was a shortage in corn, cotton, flour? They’re all commodities. If anything modern prices for these goods and services are likely to be indifferent to the increase in dema…

> The basics are largely standardized items. Do you think that if everyone in that story got a $2k BI check that the huts they live in would continue to rent for $300? Doubtful - very doubtful.

They wouldn't continue to live in $300/month huts. They'd be able to move.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#239

Post by alexanderstears » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:54 PM UTC

jjawssd wrote: post #196

alexanderstears wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a…

Are you suggesting that giving the poor huge amounts of money in one lump sum will help them more than giving them a smaller amount each month?

I think it depends.

There are some people who would turn a lump sum into self-sufficiency. There are some people who would turn a lump sum into an overdose/bender.

I think we should take the total welfare budget and let people compete for using it the best. I think the best KPIs for welfare are 1) poverty reduction 2) violent crime reduction 3) QALY increases.

If a charity can demonstrate better results than say a county, the charity should get more money.

What isn't cost effective is giving a guy a titanium leg but such a bad quality of life that he would pawn his titanium leg. Don't you think there's a better allocation of money in that guy's life?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#240

Post by marak830 » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 7:54 PM UTC

lazerpants wrote: post #133

noworld wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the person that would rather have clean clothes and a shower, then get a job, washer, dryer, and bed, and THEN worry about the dog and cheap beer later. This is an article about people that can't suppress an urge right now for long term gains and it holds them in perpetual poverty. That's who the fuck I am.

Do you have any experience with actually being this poor and desperate? There's no way to dig yourself out of a pit like this with an extra $12 bucks a month...

I do. No that extra $12 won't help you get out, but God's be damned drinking myself stupid certainly didn't.(I tried drinking it, that certainly didn't help).

What I did see, and realised more and more as I struggled, was that those few drinks was just an excuse for the people around me, to not do anything.

Oh sure, when there was a bunch of us, they were rather elequent I. Their own way, about what they would do - tomorrow, or perhaps next week, or even once they had just a few more dollars. It never happened though.

Out of everyone I grew up with, I am the only one to actually get out. Which shames me, I often wonder what I could do to have helped more, to bring people with me. But then I remember what it was like there.

Those $12 a month spent drinking isn't money that could be saved, it's the opposite, the temporary high that ruins you for many more hours than it provides.