Finally. I hope this will signal a turning point on this insane approach to national health in all countries. Drugs are a health problem, not a criminal problem. Lone experts have been fired in western countries when they have expressed this common sense sentiments alone [0]. I hope this groups fares better. Nixon started the war on drugs anyway as a mean to attack left and black activists [1]. Any previous legislati…
Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.
Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
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Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#232Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Legalising drugs != Making them cheap as chips on every high street. We can legalize drugs while applying significant barriers to entry such as high taxes, regulated distribution, user registration, medical oversight, etc and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. This has been done already and it works. Criminalising everything to do with drugs has utterly failed. That's just a flat out fact, the huge dam…
"and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. " Not really. If you create a big series of regulations and taxes around drugs - then there will still be a huge secondary, black market. The 'war on drugs' will therefore continue - even as you 'legalize' drugs. Double whammy. Take cigarettes - a much milder health concern: "the total U.S. tobacco market represented by illicit sales has grown in recent years and…
The experience in places where this has been tried is that the supply in the black market reduces and prices significantly increase. So yes, the evidence is that legalization does a better job of restricting black market access than blanket criminalization.
Note that having a legal market doesn't suddenly mean the police stop busting drugs gangs. What it means is that drugs gangs not only have to face exactly the same law enforcement crackdown they already have, but also have to compete with legal, medically regulated access to drugs. It's a double-whammy for them.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#234In Mexico 23,000 people were killed in drug related violence in 2016. Drug overdoses in the USA jumped to 59,000 in 2016. Arrest numbers in the USA in 2015 totaled 10.8 million. Drug related: 1.49 million; (Broken down: 1.25 million for drug possession; 340,000 for sale or manufacture.) 1.09 million drunk driving; 11,092 for murder or manslaughter.
Ratios of note: 438:1 Possession:Sale or manufacture; 1.25:1.5 Drunk driving:Drug related.
Government v Science: In 2009 a British psychiatrist and neuropsychopharmacologist was sacked from his position chief drug advisor position in government after publishing a list of most to least harmful drugs.
"Alcohol and tobacco are more harmful than many illegal drugs, including LSD, ecstasy and cannabis..."
He also stated horse riding was safer than ecstasy with 100 riding fatalities per year(on average).
The political blowback was massive. On the floor in House of Commons MPs vehemently rebuffed the document and its author. It was a parade of "my ignorance trumps your expert scientific opinion."
The congress and courts in the USA are no better. There's no official list but there is a pattern that has no scientific basis. The crack epidemic of the late 80's saw congress pass mandatory sentencing laws for crack. Crack is the crystalized version of cocaine. It was popular in the inner city minority population. Movie stars from the 80's would have a "cocaine nail." The nail on the pinky finger (it could be any finger) would be noticeably longer. Carrie Fisher in the Empire Strikes Back has one that really stands out.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/29/nutt-drugs-...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-advis...
It was difficult to locate reputable sources of recent data on costs in the United States. Tobacco and alcohol combined total slightly over $600 Billion/year while illegal drugs are estimated at just under $200 billion.
https://www.verywell.com/what-are-the-costs-of-drug-abuse-to... Joshua J. (2017) The Consequences of the Use of Illicit Drugs and Their Associated Private and Social Costs. In: The Economics of Addictive Behaviours Volume III. Palgrave Macmillan, Cham
http://ktla.com/2017/05/09/23000-killed-during-mexicos-drug-...
http://www.occnewspaper.com/americans-are-still-getting-arre...
So you discussed your drug habit with your physician? Physician–patient privilege isn't a sure thing anymore. The police are requesting and getting warrants to access a person's medical files. I didn't know this was happening until I started writing this post.
https://www.aclu.org/other/faq-government-access-medical-rec...
Anythingnonidin has a good list of reasons.
A few others:
- Alcohol is legal yet it's the only drug where stopping cold turkey can be fatal. Most people have heard of DTs or the shakes. So drinking too much too fast and not drinking afters of hitting the bottle every day can both be fatal.
- It's impossible to overdose on cannabis. People do have bad reactions or trips and go to the hospital but it's nothing life threatening.
- For profit prisons (almost always) cannot take prisoners who've committed a violent crime. Wonder why the dealer to possession ratio was 1:438? This is probably a factor.
- We have 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's prisoners
- Tuberculosis, HIV, Hepatitis C - The sentence wasn't for live but these transmissible diseases are.
- "If we legalize drugs think of the damage to the economy. ATF, prison guards, police, cities that are only financially solvent because of the income from the courts and prisons would face financial ruin. - Innocent until proven guilty unless there's a empty cell? How is this not a conflict of interest for the parole board?
- So we hear nothing about how many drunks get behind the wheel of a 3000lb vehicle. Only after 3-5 DWI's will they possibly face prison time. Someone smoking weed is "a threat to national security?" They pose a threat to the safety of the community. That car swerving down the road only get a slap on the wrist.
- I don't think it should be all drugs and I don't think the article made that argument. The point was to stop treating a health condition as a crime and end what Nixon started.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#235Drugs were not made illegal because they're bad for your health and they don't remain illegal because they're bad for your health. Poisons are generally not illegal. Drugs are illegal because they make people feel good or make them happy which offends the Protestant Work Ethic. The Protestant Work Ethic says that the only legitimate route to happiness is through physically difficult labor which causes you to suffer.…
So how do you avoid revolution and keep voters happy? Legalize drugs, supply computer games and VR, provide UBI.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#236Perverse, plentiful incentives to addict and sell -- or invest in the manufacturer who does so -- act quicker than panels of doctors, and dodge responsibility too easily. Living long lives as a beacons of philanthropic humanism on top of your legal drug empire (or profits gained through accompanying ownership) counteracts much stigma accrued from the deaths of your customers. > On Tuesday [July 17, 2017], OxyContin m…
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.
When the United States criminalized alcohol, usage went up.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost every post about drugs on HN has the obligatory bit about Nixon starting the war on drugs. It's like a Shibboleth or something. Nixon probably tried to make political hay out of it sure, but the war against intoxicants has been going on probably since people started using intoxicants. No shortage of earlier historical examples. At most Nixon is a chapter in the ongoing saga. So please, for all that is holy, st…
> Shibboleth I don't know what that is. Should I?
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost every post about drugs on HN has the obligatory bit about Nixon starting the war on drugs. It's like a Shibboleth or something. Nixon probably tried to make political hay out of it sure, but the war against intoxicants has been going on probably since people started using intoxicants. No shortage of earlier historical examples. At most Nixon is a chapter in the ongoing saga. So please, for all that is holy, st…
> Shibboleth I don't know what that is. Should I?
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#240Drugs were not made illegal because they're bad for your health and they don't remain illegal because they're bad for your health. Poisons are generally not illegal. Drugs are illegal because they make people feel good or make them happy which offends the Protestant Work Ethic. The Protestant Work Ethic says that the only legitimate route to happiness is through physically difficult labor which causes you to suffer.…
Dope costs money. When you've got a habit and no job, how are you going to pay? People steal to support their habits. Little children have their childhood stolen because their parents were addicts. People crash cars and kill people. That's why drugs are illegal.
You can do this with literally anything.