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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#231

Post by tome »

0xbear wrote: post #35
thesunny wrote: post #28

I haven't posted in a while but had to jump in on this. I had very bad back pain before my first daughter was born. I wanted to be able to carry my daughter when she was born so I decided to try everything, whether I believed it would work or not. I had massages, shots injected directly in the back, manipulation, and basically lots of different doctors and specialists. Nothing worked. Since I said I'd try everything,…

Your muscles are locked in spasm because they’re insufficient to carry the load. The long term solution to that is not acupuncture, it’s building up those muscles through exercise, and in particular through training with free weights.

Well yeah, but it's no good lifting weights with muscles that are locked in spasm.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#232

Post by tome »

SilasX wrote: post #3

>Also consider this: In a poll at a 2009 conference in Bonita Springs, Florida, 99 out of 100 surgeons who were asked whether they’d elect to have lumbar fusion surgery if it were recommended to them said “absolutely not.” Wow. They charge $80k for a surgery they wouldn't even use themselves for the very condition they recommend it for? To reverse the famous quote: "you know what they call ineffective procedures that…

It doesn't say that they are spinal surgeons.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#233

Post by maccard »

kough wrote: post #201
pyromine wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a healthy athletic 20 year old and I was having back pain for a while, and when I finally went to the doctor they suggested it may just be an imbalance in the strength of different muscles in my back that I didn't properly train for the sports I participate in. Gave me some exercises, and a month later back pain was all gone and my back felt stronger, with better posture. Crazy what can be done when you just have…

Got any links to similar exercises? I'm also early 20s, spend most of my day sitting at a desk, have dealt with backpain for a few years. Pullups (especially wide-grip) have helped but I'd like to know some stretches, too.

Exercises I was given were lunges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COKYKgQ8KR0 hip raises - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDP6O_aJpDg

Start in a crawling position. The purpose of this is to give you more control of the pelvic position with independence from the chest. Quote from the PDF: Start in a crawling position. Without moving your head and shoulders, roll your hips so that you arch your lower back. Do not push into pain. Only go as far as you feel comfortable with, then relax. Try not to move your upper body & chest. If this is difficult, rest your shoulders, chest and ribs on the couch or bed, keeping your tummy clear. This will help to restrict the movement higher up and help you to localize the movement to the pelvis.

The other thing my physio did was sat with me and showed me what my posture _should_ be like, and made me sit like that for an hour or so. It was then up to me to keep sitting/standing like that outside the office. The first day, I was exhausted after about 2 hours. Now, it's painful to sit slouched.

EDIT: Even though this is a thread about the industry being a scam, I'd still recommend seeing a professional (even just your GP). As other people here have alluded to, you'll probably get some drugs to get you to be able to exercise pain free, but it could also rule out other issues (kidney problems being a good example), and ensure that there's nothing more serious going on.

I'd also recommend taking up a pilates class.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#234

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pif wrote: post #207
mukundmr wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to one full meal a day and fruits / salads / soup for the other times. This takes care of hunger issues and helps with losing weight. Change of habit is required and it is not easy. Bariatric surgery can help, but it has it's own annoying side effects and long term (>7 years) reports aren't available widely.

> Change of habit is required Sure, obesity is clearly (also) a problem of bad habits. The question that still needs an answer is: when will the new habit become natural for me? Hunger is not like exercising: while a couple years of training can make a marathon feel natural for the body of a former sedentary person, no amount of training (AFAIK) can either ease the feeling of satiety with the correct amount of calori…

Satiety is apparently a complex mix including mental aspects but also chewing. Have you tried chewing more? Either "over chewing" (just keep each mouthful of food in your mouth longer and chew it to a complete pulp) or lower calorie foods that you physically have to work on more to actually eat (carrots, celery, ...)?

Water before eating may help you slow down too, which means your body can realise you're sated at an earlier point through the meal.

Just suggestions, YMMV, IANADietician and haven't fully researched these ideas scientifically (though they are based on research I've heard about in passing).

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#235

Post by tome »

erentz wrote: post #81
seanwilson wrote: post #45

I thought this community would be more scientific...instead of anecdotes I'd rather see links to rigorous studies e.g. showing acupuncture or chiropractors work especially since these two forms of intervention have been subjected to decades of research already, have no plausible scientific basis and claim to treat many more things besides back pain. They should be held to the same standards as other medicine.

It's disturbing. I suspect most of this community would be anti-anti-vax (pro-vax?). And if one were to suggest on this forum that "I vaccinated my child and they got autism, therefore vaccines cause autism", they would be met with the appropriate skepticism. But in this thread people are professing "I had acupuncture and got better, therefore acupuncture works" and somehow that's considered defensible.

> in this thread people are professing "I had acupuncture and got better, therefore acupuncture works"

Where are you seeing that? I didn't see it. What I see is "I had acupuncture and got better, therefore acupuncture works for me", which is a much weaker claim. Moreover, it contains a great insight: treatment for back pain needs to be highly idiosyncratic.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#236

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pif wrote: post #208
m00x wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean no known way for obese people? If you're already fit, it's incredibly easy to stay fit. Also, most of the time, obese people don't only eat to satisfy hunger, but much past that.

> If you're already fit, it's incredibly easy to stay fit. You are right! Thanks for pointing it out. > obese people don't only eat to satisfy hunger, but much past that. They surely don't eat for the pleasure of adding some more fat to their body.

>They surely don't eat for the pleasure of adding some more fat to their body. //

We surely do, isn't that the problem, we're tailored to times of famine & plenty meaning eating is pleasurable even when we're physically sated to allow us to gain weight ready for the next famine?

I'm on the line of obesity, I eat most when I'm lethargic, depressed, bored. I eat less when I'm exercising, occupied mentally, distracted, physically tired.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#237

Post by tome »

hiisukun wrote: post #97

At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can…

Ultimately the spine was designed to give structural integrity to aquatic animals.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#238

Post by icelancer »

mistermann wrote: post #161
maxxxxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do half an hour of yoga postures almost every morning. When I don't do them for a few days I get pretty bad back pain and migraines. when I am doing them, no problems at all. Before doing that doctors would give me injections and muscle relaxers all the time. I am pretty sure I either would already had had surgery or would get it at some point if I had followed doctors' advice. The trick is that you have to adjust…

What part of your back? Is there a name or website for the routine you follow?

Many will do McKenzie Method work ($10-15 book on Amazon, Treat Your Own Back) for lumbar pain in flexion. It is very specifically good for that and that alone, which is the most common form of low back pain. I found a lot of relief using the tools in the book (yoga-type postures) and weight lifting.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#239

Post by icelancer »

sundvor wrote: post #26

I'm a programmer, always at the desk. Back problems came on in my mid/late thirties, as I let my physique go. Once I started squatting in early 40s, back pain has largely subsided. Only reoccurred when I got too optimistic regarding my training, after a break. Have now fixed that by learning to train in moderation / be more consistent - as I get older, there really is no excuse good enough for not going. So yes: Lear…

Squatting, deadlifting, and don't forget Rippetoe's favorite accessory exercise - back extensions, or reverse hypers if you can find the setup - do wonders.

Pairing weightlifting with McKenzie Method work is great if you suffer from lumbar flexion back pain; the most common out there. Also, weightlifting works best for that type of pain as well due to it getting rid of anterior pelvic tilt over time and reinforcing a neutral spine, to say nothing of the increased muscle gain and postural support you get from pushing iron.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#240

Post by icelancer »

nostromo wrote: post #5
theseatoms wrote: post #2

> The author is often asked for her thoughts on certain forms of exercise, such as yoga or pilates, which she also covers on her website. What she tells people, repeatedly, is that “movement is essential.” The exercise economy is the real back pain industry.

Exercise fixed all of my back pain issues. I do heavy deadlifts. I can't tell you how many people told me that it would hurt my back. But it turns out having a muscular back to support my spine was exactly what I needed.

Deadlifting heavy loads improve hypertrophy and muscle; this definitely helps. People seem to understand that. But those reading this may also be swayed by the fact that properly performed deadlifts (and squats) increase proprioception around the back and also stimulate osteoblasts and bone growth, while killing - over time - anterior pelvic tilt, which contributes to low back pain.

It's more than just muscle. Deadlifts really do a hell of a lot for the body. (They also stimulate growth hormone!)

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