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Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

latimes.com

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Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#231

Post by c0nducktr »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #58
chii wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you were wrongly convicted of a crime, would the costs of your defense be somehow be re-imbursed or compensated?

There have been people wrongly convicted who can't even get out of prison once something like DNA evidence exonerates them.

I believe there's even been cases where people have been executed despite DNA evidence exonerating them.

IIRC, the judge's opinion was something like "Well, we followed all the procedures correctly, it doesn't matter if the wrong conclusion was reached"

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#232

Post by hajile »

danielam wrote: post #219
throwawayjava wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly involuntary servitude, and I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between that and slavery. Also, the word "except" is our key hint here.

It is involuntary (all punishment is!), but it's not servitude in the same sense that slavery is. If you want to call that "slavery" nonetheless, that's up to you, but you'd be equivocating. There is a difference between slavery as an institution of unjust forced submission and "slavery" as just punishment for crimes committed.

The fundamental issue is that the majority (or the oligarchy) decide what is "wrong".

I seriously doubt (and see no evidence for the idea) that the US is so lawless that we can have almost a quarter of all prisoners in the entire world while only having a fraction of its population.

This speaks strongly to the idea that huge amounts of wrongful imprisonment occurs and (as a logical consequence) these people are slaves against their will without their having done anything worthy of punishment.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#233

Post by sgc »

soup10 wrote: post #146

giving criminals rights is a politically toxic because of religious doctrine: the point of jail is not to learn, but to suffer. the idea is if you flagrantly disrespect god(aka the power structure of the society you live in), you must suffer as an example to others. Its not an ideal system, but there's a certain sensibility to it that stabilizes society. If people saw those that go to jail, come out better persons. T…

That does not resemble any religious doctrine I know of. The predominant one in the US, Christianity, views punishment on earth as corrective in nature, ie for rehabilitation, and also views prisons as serving the purpose of separating bad actors from society so they cannot damage others. There is no place for retribution, vengeance, etc. American culture seems to be fixated with vendetta, but it is not religious in nature at all, just as it has nothing to do with their love of sports.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#234

Post by swayvil »

yjgyhj wrote: post #162
cubano wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being boorish about the subject... I was recently released from Las Vegas County Jail (CCDC) where all sentenced inmates, myself included, are forced , by state law, to "work" in some manner in the jail. In this case, work consisted of 11-hour shifts, 6 days a week, of ultra back-breaking kitchen work. We were not even allowed to have water cups anywhere outside the break room. They actually yelled fas…

That is indeed totally crazy. I wish I had some way to verify your story, as I as a reader can't know who sits behind the keyboard on the other side.

"If it seems strange then assume it's a lie".

When did that become a thing? And who does it benefit?

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#235

Post by webXL »

jondubois wrote: post #204
usmeteora wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back to the topic, prisons are just another haven for contract robbing. The prison contracts everything from security to mopping. Everything is 3x more expensive. Prison costs are a sink to our society. Except taxpayers foot the bill. Theres an economic incentive to keeping crime low and right now were all being robbed blind, in this area as well (because yes there are too many to count) The amount who are released w…

Yes the idea of having a criminal record is silly - It's a self-fulfilling label. Once you are labeled a criminal, it only makes it harder to get a job and give up crime. Besides, crime has become such an arbitrary thing. A corporation is allowed to quietly syphon away billions of dollars from society using clever government lobbying and tax avoidance schemes but if a member of society physically steals something fro…

I mostly agree that the record makes it harder to get a job and give up crime, but what about the deterrence factor? How many more would commit crimes knowing that it wouldn't have any impact on their ability to get a decent job right after serving some time?

> A corporation is allowed to quietly syphon away billions of dollars from society using clever government lobbying and tax avoidance schemes

Was it society's to begin with?

And you can't completely pin the financial crisis on the likes of JP Morgan when the feds bailed them out with our tax dollars. That was the crime.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#236

Post by thriftwy »

xor1 wrote: post #229
thriftwy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about paying what it's worth for labor instead of expecting to get 'cheap' labor? Yesterday people expected cheap construction labor, today they complain there's not enough cheap home nurses around. I wonder if they'll aim for cheap software development labor tomorrow. I wonder why I don't feel entitled to cheap caviar and cheap yachts?

>How about paying what it's worth for labor instead of expecting to get 'cheap' labor? Tell that to all of the companies that outsource manufacturing.

Outsource manufacturing is a slightly different case because the labor might not be 'cheap' in the offshore country.

Offshore workers are often abused, but when they are not they might be paid a decent wage which is also peanuts when onsite wages are considered. You profit from arbitraging cost of living, not from exploitation.

Even if we enforce unions at oursource locations with wage control, outsource manufacturing won't disappear overnight.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#237

Post by ianai »

cubano wrote: post #217
yjgyhj wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is indeed totally crazy. I wish I had some way to verify your story, as I as a reader can't know who sits behind the keyboard on the other side.

> I wish I had some way to verify your story, as I as a reader can't know who sits behind the keyboard on the other side. I could never in a 1000 years make up the narrative of my life. I often cannot believe I've lived it. Every word I write here on HN is true, although you simply have no idea how I wish it wasn't so.

I believe you.

I'm also a LV resident. The city is generally hostile.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#240

Post by jaggi1 »

thriftwy wrote: post #222
narrator wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend who lived in Bisbee, Arizona, which is a small town next to the border that has a big border patrol station in the city. He said that because of the border patrol presence there aren't any illegal aliens around to do construction. He could only get cheap labor from ex-convicts. It made me think that typically ex-cons have formed the lowest rung in the economic ladder that illegal aliens now fulfill.

How about paying what it's worth for labor instead of expecting to get 'cheap' labor? Yesterday people expected cheap construction labor, today they complain there's not enough cheap home nurses around. I wonder if they'll aim for cheap software development labor tomorrow. I wonder why I don't feel entitled to cheap caviar and cheap yachts?

> How about paying what it's worth for labor instead of expecting to get 'cheap' labor?

Sure! but will you rent a place that is $500 expensive while bringing no additional benefit other than it employed someone at higher wages ?

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