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Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

latimes.com

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Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#231

Post by awinter-py »

pnut wrote: post #194
awinter-py wrote: post #19

I think everyone remembers the first ad to follow them around multiple websites. For me it was an ASPCA campaign. The next version of that experience will be researching a purchase and where to get it, then seeing ads on the way that are customized to (a) the product you're buying and (b) your preferences. If you're 55 you'll get michael jordan advising you to buy nikes. If you're 35 it will be Noel Gallagher (air no…

If ads were going to become honest and informative, it would have happened already. A sale from a lie is equal in value to a sale from the truth.

not always -- returns are pretty expensive for retailers.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#232

Post by noonespecial »

adjkant wrote: post #120
gub09 wrote: post #66

This is probably an unusual opinion, but for me privacy is similar to freedom. Freedom is usually defined as a negative: people are free of oppression, have freedom of speech (freedom from speech being constrained), freedom of movement (not forced to stay in one place), religious freedom (freedom to believe what one will and not be limited in practice or assembly), etc. Privacy is the freedom from being watched, from…

I think it's important to note the definition of privacy you use is important. For me, in my daily life, all of this is completely "private". Google having my data in mass and an identity profile on me that no human will ever specifically look at is just as good as private to me. The fact that computers will be handing this data, not other humans, is an important distinction for me. No human will ever see my individu…

>No human will ever see my individual data in all likelihood.

What matters to me is not the likelihood, but the possibility. Can someone who wants to at a later date, "pull my file" and see it all.

If its true then what we have is a classic example of the panopticon. They can't watch everybody all the time, but they can watch anybody whenever they want, even retroactively. That's bad news.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#233

Post by uiri »

creepydata wrote: post #197
Guest98123 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a store in my city that just opened a few weeks ago. They advertise as being paperless and cash free, and only accept debit/credit. I think it's the first time I went to a store that refused cash.

I don't travel a ton but I have not been on an airplane in the last decade that accepted cash for in-flight purchases. Debit or credit only.

My experience with short regional jumps operated by a subsidiary or third-party under a larger airline brand has been that they do cash-only while the medium- and long-haul flights actually operated by the large airline have been card-only.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#234

Post by nicholasjarnold »

AdamN wrote: post #215

Are there concrete recommendations for being able to use a credit card (i.e. for an airline purchase where cash is tough) and maintain maximum privacy? I know Apple Pay helps vis-a-vis the merchant since the CC number is hidden. Are Visa, AMEX, MC different at all? Are there banks that have better privacy policies or does it not matter since the bank is just handling the final money transfer?

I use a service called Privacy.com which is quite convenient for certain types of transactions or when dealing with certain merchants. Check their privacy policy: https://privacy.com/terms#privacy-policy

The one thing that stands out to me is this line: "Privacy.com does not disclose personal data to third parties for direct marketing purposes."

I am suspicious that the addition of the word 'direct' in that sentence might be significant. I'd love to hear of other similar services.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#235

Post by 659087 »

bingojess wrote: post #219
pdkl95 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the definition of privacy you use is important Yes, it is. Defining privacy to mean the very opposite of "private" is pure doublethink/newspeak. > Google having my data You're not giving your data only to google. You're also giving it to anybody that hacks Google's servers to take their data at any point in the future (and anybody that buys it from the hackers), and any government (or other entity with sufficient p…

I agree with what you are saying but given the probabilities (I don't see the big 5 having a significant data breach any time soon) it is something I'm willing to trade off or sacrifice so to speak. I guess the ideal scenario would be that all corporation and the government does not store my data, even anonymously. But this is unrealistic and I haven't bothered looking for alternatives that are safer/have more privac…

> Personally for me, the benefits from using services provided by Google or any other company outweigh the risks of my information falling into the wrong hands

Which benefits? Most of the services Google provides can be replaced for free or for very small amounts of money -- and without giving up your privacy.

Is saving $50-100/yr really worth granting Google the right to store and abuse your data forever, or the risk of your data ending up in the hands of criminals?

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#236

Post by AlexandrB »

name_for_now wrote: post #79
anger wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in the information age, when information is the ultimate power. One danger is that with all that data about you and very advanced AI/ML tech Google can push you into making irrational purchase decisions (yeah, I know YOU are special, and advertising doesn't work on YOU) - e.g. buying a red sports car in your 40s. The other is this data will be available to NSA, GCHQ, etc. and their controlling governments, po…

So, outside of giving your data to government agencies, you're saying the worst thing Google can do is use ML to turn you into a consumer-zombie? While I mostly share your stance on this, that argument just seems completely ineffective (in part to the sense of exceptionalism you mention). Unless there's some poster child case of this that I'm unaware of, I'm not sure why "big scary ML-injected ads" keep getting broug…

> So, outside of giving your data to government agencies, you're saying the worst thing Google can do is use ML to turn you into a consumer-zombie?

Or a political zombie. Did everyone forget ad-tech's role in the 2016 election?

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#237

Post by ionised »

adjkant wrote: post #20
paradite wrote: post #12

Now I will have to seriously consider getting off the Google ecosystem now. Deactivating facebook was okay, but Google might be tricky considering many of website accounts use Google authentication.

Okay, this is a small rant that is not directly aimed at you, so nothing personal. This is aimed generally more at people in the privacy at all costs camp and the like. If there's some viewpoint I'm missing here I'd also love to hear it, so it's not really a mean-spirited rant either. Google owns the internet at this point. For general use purposes, they ARE the internet. So avoiding them should really have at least…

> Google owns the internet at this point. For general use purposes, they ARE the internet.

This is an obscene exaggeration.

You are seriously overestimating how much significance Google has, and how irreplaceable they are in people's lives.

If you've never seriously bothered looking into leaving the Google ecosystem though, I could see how you might think that way.

The hardest part about transitioning away from Google for me personally, was the time it took to switch all my accounts from one email address (GMail) to others (Kolab, Posteo).

It was still no more than a few hours of one day. After that, no more Google. I've been free of any Google accounts or services for around 4 years now and despite an initial headache, I don't feel like I'm missing any irreplaceable conveniences.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#238

Post by PrivWeeble »

singron wrote: post #89
russell_h wrote: post #15

A Googler gave a talk at Real World Crypto in January describing a system that might back this. The relevant part of the talk starts around the 10 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee7oRsDnNNc&t=10m1s In short, they're able to compute the intersection of the set of users who have viewed an ad with the set of people who purchased a product in a store, without either party disclosing their side of the set.

After studying the slides, it looks like they do a Diffie Hellman-like exchange of user identifiers. g_i = Google's identifier for customer i. s_j = Merchant identifer for customer j. If g_i == s_j then customer i == j. These identifiers might be phone numbers or email addresses or other identifiers that both parties have. Neither party wants the other to learn any identifiers it doesn't already known about. So Googl…

Either side learning that one of their customers is also a customer of the other company would be a significant privacy issue in some scenarios. If comparison identifiers are derived from an email address then there would likely be cases where one party also learns a portion of the login credentials their customer is using at the other company.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#239

Post by hammock »

singron wrote: post #224
hammock wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new and a very common process. A personal identifying variable is calculated in the same way on both sides (usually by a third party), then hashed. Hashed values are then compared/matched.

What makes you think they are just comparing hashes and not this diffie hellman algorithm that they say they have been using?

No idea how Google is doing it. Was referring to how others have been doing it for years.

Re: Google starts tracking what people buy in physical stores

#240

Post by TheCoelacanth »

hagakure0c wrote: post #125
evolve2k wrote: post #119

> The new tracking system was created in consultation with “incredibly smart people” to ensure it's not invasive. He described the program as “secure and privacy safe.” It's not "incredibly smart people" you need; it's "highly ethical people".

Sooner or later people will start to revolt and either go back to use semi-anonymous cash or truly anonymous payment systems like bitcoin. Google and advertising will then be in the dark.

Bitcoin: I don't want Google to have access to a private ledger of my transactions, so instead I'm going to make all of my transactions available via a public ledger.
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