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CockroachDB 1.0

cockroachlabs.com

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Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#231

Post by jordanlewis »

daliwali wrote: post #185
jordanlewis wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer on the SQL team at CockroachDB. We're very aware of our missing support for array column types - and in fact beginning to add support for arrays is one of my team's priorities for the next release cycle. What kind of other recent SQL features introduced in Postgres 9.4 do you use? Postgres has a ton of features, as I'm sure you're aware, and while we strive for wire compatibility with Postgres it's no…

I double checked my codebase and it looks like it's just JSONB, which CockroachDB also doesn't support [0]. Sorry to bother about missing features, but there are really some things that prevent a smooth transition from Postgres. [0] https://github.com/cockroachdb/cockroach/issues/2969

Yep, JSONB is on our roadmap as well, although it won't come before array column type support. Thanks for the feedback - I'd personally love to see migrations from PostgreSQL to CockroachDB become seamless for more complex use cases as we continue development.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#232

Post by eridius »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #224
mburst wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It so far appears not to be hurting them. In the slightest. I feel like that is tough to judge because the public has only known them by one name as far as I know. If they switched to this name from another name and saw no difference then we could surmise that the name has had no affect.

I disagree that it's tough to judge but that's because they've raised a considerable amount of capital ($53 million over three rounds): https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/cockroach-labs#/enti...

The end goal of a company is not to raise venture funding. So you cannot use "they raised capital" as proof that their name isn't a problem. Their name absolutely will hurt their adoption. Maybe the product is good enough that they'll still be successful, but if so, you would expect them to be even more successful if they didn't have such an off-putting name.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#233

Post by codehusker »

stock_toaster wrote: post #217
codehusker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not bikeshedding when the bikeshed's color will actually have concrete effects on adoption. Not taking a stance either way on the name, but that is the definition of bike-shedding (aka law of triviality). A committee won't vote for my nuclear plant because the bike shed is red. The bike shed's color has concrete effects on adoption. EDIT: I would just like to acknowledge the irony of bike-shedding bike-sheddin…

> ...but that is the definition of bike-shedding (aka law of triviality) > A committee won't vote for my nuclear plant because the bike shed is red. > The bike shed's color has concrete effects on adoption. Not exactly. > Parkinson observed that a committee whose job is to approve plans for a > nuclear power plant may spend the majority of its time on relatively > unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what ma…

I need some additional hand-holding here if you don't mind, I don't see the difference.

If I were to rephrase those two excerpts:

  > Parkinson observed that a committee whose job is to approve plans for a 
  > [globally distributed relational database] may spend the majority of its time on relatively 
  > unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what [the name is],
  > while neglecting the design of the [globally distributed relational database] itself,
  > which is far more important but also far more difficult to criticize constructively.

  > A [globally distributed relational database] is so vastly expensive and complicated that an average person cannot
  > understand it, so one assumes that those who work on it understand it. On the
  > other hand, everyone can [read a name], so planning 
  > one can result in endless discussions because *everyone involved wants to add a
  > touch and show personal contribution*.
edit: formatting

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#234

Post by SilasX »

EnFinlay wrote: post #220
SilasX wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not bikeshedding when the bikeshed's color will actually have concrete effects on adoption. Most people -- i.e. in procurement, management, finance, and others you need to appeal to -- don't want anything to do with cockroaches. The idea disgusts them at a gut level, not something you can talk away. HN users are giving vital advice, for free. Those who ignore it will have only themselves to blame. As I say every…

When people are bike shedding, they aren't doing it to waste time, they think that they are adding value because of `list of bad results of wrong colour here`. So here's my question to you: could you be wrong about this having "concrete effects on adoption"? And if you are wrong, is this just bike shedding? And to continue the bike shed metaphor, it's about people ignoring nuclear power plant design whose worst case…

I elaborated in much (probably too much) greater detail on the relevance of the bikeshedding metaphor here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14310444

I would appreciate your thoughts.

With respect to your specific point: if we could resolve how much it matters, then yes, that would obviate the debate. But the bikeshedding metaphor doesn't add much there because it's precisely in dispute about how much it matters.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#236

Post by Fiahil »

gonzofish wrote: post #212
andkon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I do product marketing for a living, and have launched a whole wack of things with good and bad and boring names. The fact that CockroachDB is consistently on top of HN with each thing they do is pretty strong evidence that they're doing just fine with the name they have, and probably doing even better than if they had a milquetoast tech startup-esque name. Also, they know what their sales cycles look like. They h…

I think the fact that the name isn't milquetoast is a huge bonus. People are caught off guard by the name, which gets them thinking about it. I think the dismissal that business people won't look at it because of the name is purely opinion-based. But what do I know?

Zerg players will love the name. And there might be a small intersection, somewhere, between business people and Starcraft amateurs.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#237

Post by bdarnell »

apognu wrote: post #229

I've been following CockroachDB for quite a while. Great job on 1.0. I've had a question for quite some time though (and I think there is an RFC for it on GitHub): do we still need to have a "seed node" that is run without the --join parameter, or can we run all the nodes with the same command line, with the cluster waiting for quorum to reconcile on its own?

Currently, you need to run one node without --join for the initial bootstrapping (as soon as this bootstrapping is complete, you can and should restart it with --join to get everything into a homogenous configuration). I was hoping to make some changes here so you could start every node with --join from the beginning, but it was trickier than anticipated so it didn't make the cut for 1.0. Watch for improvements here in a future release.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#238

Post by jordanlewis »

petre wrote: post #193
jordanlewis wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an engineer on the SQL team at CockroachDB. We're very aware of our missing support for array column types - and in fact beginning to add support for arrays is one of my team's priorities for the next release cycle. What kind of other recent SQL features introduced in Postgres 9.4 do you use? Postgres has a ton of features, as I'm sure you're aware, and while we strive for wire compatibility with Postgres it's no…

JSON/JSONB datatypes, listen/notify, spatial extensions.

JSON/JSONB will come after array support. As far as I know, we don't have any concrete plans at this time to support listen/notify or spatial datatypes.

Re: CockroachDB 1.0

#239

Post by greenshackle2 »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #224
mburst wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It so far appears not to be hurting them. In the slightest. I feel like that is tough to judge because the public has only known them by one name as far as I know. If they switched to this name from another name and saw no difference then we could surmise that the name has had no affect.

I disagree that it's tough to judge but that's because they've raised a considerable amount of capital ($53 million over three rounds): https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/cockroach-labs#/enti...

You don't know that they wouldn't have raised more with a better name.
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