231–240 of 359 posts
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I can understand MS but John Deere? Hard to credit that they'd be monitoring HN. I mean how many farmers read HN?
I'm sceptical as well but I imagine people there search Twitter and Google and such to see what is being said by them.
Whether that's good or bad depends on how it's used I guess.
I have the feeling that somehow the actual need has been put aside for phylosophical (or Open Source, etc.) reasonings (nice but not the original issue). More or less what the good farmers are asking for (which is not about the code, the kernel or whatever, they are not "hackers" as much as the authorized JD technicians are not computer experts or programmers or software engineers) is just access to the "database" of…
Hey all, I worked on software for John Deere. This is a throwaway account for obvious reasons. Opinions expressed here are MY OWN. I no longer work for John Deere or am associated with them in any way. I was part of one of the many teams that work on this software. Specifically I was part of John Deere's ISG division also known as the Intelligent Solutions Group. The ISG division (was at the time) responsible for tyi…
Your code is deliberately user-hostile. Farmers aren't trying to hack their tractors for the sake of it; they need to hack the parts of your code that prevent them from performing routine maintenance. Replacing a fuel pump is not going to turn a tractor into a rampaging death machine.
You are using spurious safety arguments to justify profiteering. Software lock-outs are being used to prop up a business model, just like the chips in printer ink cartridges.
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Wow the public relations sock-puppetry on HN is getting very clever and sophisticated. I really love the green account - nice touch. It really helps your authenticity to pretend like you are afraid of retribution from John Deere when you are totally kissing their asses. Let me ask you this -- why in the world do the lines of software you write prevent a qualified mechanic from changing a transmission? You know people…
Not on either side here, but I feel like you're missing the point there. Let's say someone does modify the code, then the machine messes up and ends up killing someone. Who would be the culprit there? I guess they could have something that detects when the software is modified, but even if they did, I bet it would still be poor publicity for them (similar to when people misuse Tesla's assist and getting in accidents)…
Let's not. These farmers don't want to change the software. They only want to fix their hardware.
And because of the close tightness with the software, they can't.
I have the feeling that somehow the actual need has been put aside for phylosophical (or Open Source, etc.) reasonings (nice but not the original issue). More or less what the good farmers are asking for (which is not about the code, the kernel or whatever, they are not "hackers" as much as the authorized JD technicians are not computer experts or programmers or software engineers) is just access to the "database" of…
More like this, following your example. Install a new video card. Windows won't boot until a certified tech comes by, at $100/hour and $1/mile.
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Not on either side here, but I feel like you're missing the point there. Let's say someone does modify the code, then the machine messes up and ends up killing someone. Who would be the culprit there? I guess they could have something that detects when the software is modified, but even if they did, I bet it would still be poor publicity for them (similar to when people misuse Tesla's assist and getting in accidents)…
>Let's say someone does modify the code. Let's not. These farmers don't want to change the software . They only want to fix their hardware. And because of the close tightness with the software, they can't.
When John Deere does this, HN is up in arms. When Tesla does it, it's part of an "innovative business model".
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Let people run their own software. If they kill someone, hold them liable. If deaths become endemic, then consider locking them down. As many comments on these stories demonstrate, farmers have as much valid reasons to have control over their equipment as John Deere has for preventing it. Technology is always about trade-offs. It's just that John Deere took things too far.
Think about what you just said for a second. "endemic" deaths of innocent people are the litmus test for whether software should be locked down? How is that in any way acceptable?
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Yes, reining copyright terms in, putting in strong protections for individuals and hobbyists so that copyright is irrelevant to anyone with less than $1M in revenue, and liberalizing fair use (which unfortunately probably also means seriously overhauling our judicial processes to be not horrendously slow and expensive) would make copyright far more tolerable. IMO the ideal would be something like 10 year copyright te…
Less than $1M? Then my personal business would evaporate because everyone would copy it for free. I provide value to people and they pay me and it supports my family. You're saying I should stop doing that work and become, I don't know, a bricklayer instead? I won't be able to do open source work because that doesn't generate money.
And likely, remote kill would also be implemented to nuke the software from the owner's point of view, in cases like alleged breach of contract and "pissed off owner' sort of reasons.. Like what Garagdet did when a customer posted a bad review of their IoT crap.
There's going to be a huge market in used pre-DRM heavy machinery. The purely mechanical/hydraulic versions of this stuff is virtually indestructible, with a little maintenance.
I'll gladly pay the cost of a John Deere mechanic from time to time before I go back to the purely mechanical tractors we used to have on the farm. When I hear this kind of comment I have to wonder if: 1. The person has never spent time in a tractor. 2. Has never spent time in a modern tractor. 3. Has never spent time in an old tractor.
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More like this, following your example. Install a new video card. Windows won't boot until a certified tech comes by, at $100/hour and $1/mile.
Yes, exactly. And of course you are replacing that video card not because you just fancy it, but because the video card in your 24/7 vital/mission critical PC just burned (and this kind of things - from experience - tend to happen between friday 11:00 PM and saturday 3:00 AM ;))