Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own • Hacker News Board

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#231

Post by Lazare » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 11:48 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #171

Lazare wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, absolutely. We have laws banning outright fraud, setting minimum food safety standards, a lot of rules about packaging and labelling. And that's good! But we don't have any laws or expectation that a food vendor is going to be acting in my best interests. If I want to spend my rent money on 87 large pepperoni pizzas, nobody is going to arrest the guy who took my order because he didn't sit down and have a 30…

It's not as simple as that. They are a servicer, not a lender -- they are contracted by the lender to collect the money from the borrower. So the borrowers never asked to be customers of Navient. They borrowed some money from a bank or the government, who then contracted Navient to service the loans. Now servicing loans is like owning an interest only bond -- you get a small payment every month as long as the loan is…

> But again many of these loans are not just simple transactions in the marketplace, but rather subsidized social programs, where the government in promoting the program has a reasonable expectation that some part of this subsidy should fall to the borrower, and is reasonable frustrated when a provider whom they have hired tries to prevent this.

IF SO, that seems like a damning indictment of the government and the contracts they have drawn up then?

If you're trying to run some sort of soft touch social program where maximising the amount collected isn't your primary goal, then obvious the ONE thing you shouldn't do is then outsource managing it to a private company who gets paid based on their ability to maximise the account collected. Right? Given that's the one thing the government could do most likely to undermine their goals?

If you want happy borrowers, sign a contract with Navicent that pays them based on their NPS score. :)

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#232

Post by wanderer2323 » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 12:32 AM UTC

tajen wrote: post #80

enraged_camel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the combined assets of the entire class of student debtors is probably NEGATIVE Doesn't matter. As the saying goes: if you owe the bank $1,000, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, the bank has a problem. Debtors as a group probably would have a great deal of collective bargaining power.

US has never had problems with putting 1% of their population in jail. If every student, even the children of billionaires, massively refuse to pay back as a group, the banks would be too happy to strike a deal with the children of billionaires in order to put the 99% others in jail.

"US has never had problems with putting 1% of their population in jail." {Citation needed}

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#233

Post by ericd » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 3:00 AM UTC

white-flame wrote: post #16

jknoepfler wrote: post #8

While I appreciate that people are sour about student debt, I don't think Navient, qua big business, should behave in any other way. I personally think public universities should be free and highly selective, rather than the opposite. But I also think taking out loans with no plan to repay them is criminally stupid. If the education product being sold is fraudulent, go after the fraudulent institution (as has been do…

> privatizing The core of the issue is still the university tuition rates, and universities involved are usually not privatized. These public institutions have become profit centers, benefiting from the captive audience of young career seekers, and cranking up administration overhead costs in their budgets to absorb the increased amounts of loan money available to prospective students. Loans are always hardball busin…

I believe this is because public universities have lost corresponding amounts of public funding, that they've had to make it up on tuition.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#234

Post by kelnos » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #123

kelnos wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it should be, unless they publicly advertise that they will help borrowers... which they did.

Common sense would suggest that a loan collection agency's idea of helping the borrower will be helping them find ways to pay off their loan, which is not necessarily the same as working in the borrower's best interest.

The interests can be aligned, though: if the lender puts too much stress on the borrower's finances such that they default, the lender does not win either. So the lender has an incentive to work with the borrower to get their money back in a way that ensures they're able to make payments without so much hardship that they just stop making payments.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#235

Post by evanreichard » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 3:18 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #64

jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

College degrees still mostly have a good ROI. The huge lie is the ROI on pedigree, prestige, whatever you want to call it. Kids are still being told to apply to expensive small private schools and to worry about the financial aid process later. Kids are told to find the right fit. None of that really matters. The big ROI is just getting a degree or the type of degree. There are few elite schools that have a much bett…

> Also, community colleges are a great resource.

I think my lackluster grades in High School were actually a blessing in disguise. I attended Rockland Community College (as no one would accept me anywhere else) and received an A.A.S. in Cyber Security with a very high GPA. Due to my performance at my CC I received a great academic scholarship to Rochester Institute of Technology.

I graduated RIT with just more than $15k in loans.

I'm glad it went the way it did. But, coming out of HS the stigma of CC was palpable, and it shouldn't be - the education at my CC was surprisingly good. Many of my peers who graduated with me at RIT, and those who graduated with me in HS but went straight to private well renowned schools, are in 10x more debt than me.

Luckily I'm the oldest off all my cousins, and will be drilling this into them when they start looking at schools.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#236

Post by thatwebdude » Wed, Apr 05, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #46

Student loan money is awesome. Go to a state school, pay for school with PELL grants and working. Take the loan money and bank/invest/refinance stuff with it. The interest doesn't start accruing until after graduation so until then it's free money. The worst thing you can do with it is actually pay for school with it, especially an expensive private school for a degree with uncertain job prospects.

That's a bad assumption that PELL grants are just freely given out to anyone and everyone. You still have to qualify, and the financial status of your parents weighs heavily on that factor.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#237

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

ap3 wrote: post #75

anigbrowl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this the other day looking at a billboard, talking about how Alive/Bob/Carol wasa winner! at the local casino, with a tiny 'play responsibly' box huddled in the corner. I don't have a strong opinion about gambling but I do care about externalities, and I was amused by the idea that some percentage of billboards (reflective of the incidence of problematic gambling) should feature Alive, Bob and Ca…

For casinos make the odds of winning play a part in the adverts. 99.9% of the casino adds have to show people sad about losing - before we get 1 winning ad

That was actually my first idea, but everyone knows that the odds are with the house, and as people pointed out the odds are printed right on lottery tickets and people still buy them despite the terrible deal on offer.

I figured that adjusting say 8% of the ads to reflect an (imaginary) 8% incidence of problem gambling would actually be more effective, by balancing the legitimate commercial desires of the casino, the legitimate worry of gambling addiction, and making the billboards just unpredictable enough to keep people playing...er, guessing.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#238

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #185

danudey wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, just require them to disclose the odds for any games of chance. "Visit Golden Palace photo of a roulette wheel for a 46% chance of breaking even!"

Wouldn't that be cool if it created a competitive market where casinos advertised their house advantage?

One of them does around here. The one that always amuses me is '05% payout on slots'. I like to imagine some nice people handing a crumpled up $100 to a cashier and getting nice crispy bills in return totalling $95.