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How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

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Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#231

Post by innocentoldguy »

tyingq wrote: post #70
itchyjunk wrote: post #15

When I was first about to move to Utah, few years ago, lot of people asked me "why?" and told me a lot about a lot of things. Of course, I didn't even know who the Mormons were (I am not from USA originally). Most of what I heard was wrong. I've met Mormons who have asked me where I am from and not only know where that country is but spoke to me in my NATIVE tougue. I was very impressed. The key word in the article i…

> I am not sure why Utah has such an odd reputation outside of the state Part of it is that Mormon influence. As you mention, there are a lot of positive things they bring to the table. Like any other church, though, it's not all positive. Because they are a dominant proportion of the state (~60% of the population), their religious views leak into politics, public schools, law, business relationships, media, and so f…

Isn't that the case anywhere in the U.S. though? Don't local politics always reflect the cultures and opinions of those doing the voting? Isn't that by intentional design?

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#232

Post by innocentoldguy »

hkmurakami wrote: post #52
alexanderson wrote: post #12

As a Utahn, the most disappointing thing about this article is the racial homogeny. It's true - nearly everyone is white. But that doesn't mean that there isn't some diversity. When my father was a Mormon bishop, he would dole out orders for the Bishop's Storehouse to everyone just the same, whether they were white, black, Latino, or Asian - Made no difference to him. They got the same food, but also had to live by t…

Iirc Matz (of Ruby) is Mormon. I've always wondered what the Mormon roots are like outside of the continental US and how they took hold and continue to be.

He is. He was even a bishop in his church for a while. I've met him a few times. He's probably the nicest guy in the entire world.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#233

Post by mythrwy »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #230
mythrwy wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone leaving an ideology opens the possibility that the ideology may not be founded on solid ground in the minds of those who stay. Mormons spend a lot of time proclaiming how much they know it's true to each other. I've always believed this to be some sort of a mental trick like "if we just keep saying it we'll make it so". This isn't to bag on Mormons either. Lots of groups do something similar (many of which ar…

A couple of things... 1. I believe leaving an ideology has more to do with the individual that the ideology, especially when the ideology remains consistent. For example, I was born into a Mormon family, baptized into the LDS church, and even served as an LDS missionary in Tokyo, Japan for two years. Then, I rebelled against the religion, for a variety of self-centered reasons, and demanded to be excommunicated. I re…

I could tell you a very different story but I won't. Vitriol isn't something I have though.

I'm at peace and it sounds like you are too.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#234

Post by tyingq »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #231
tyingq wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not sure why Utah has such an odd reputation outside of the state Part of it is that Mormon influence. As you mention, there are a lot of positive things they bring to the table. Like any other church, though, it's not all positive. Because they are a dominant proportion of the state (~60% of the population), their religious views leak into politics, public schools, law, business relationships, media, and so f…

Isn't that the case anywhere in the U.S. though? Don't local politics always reflect the cultures and opinions of those doing the voting? Isn't that by intentional design?

60% of the population being of one religion in an entire state is unique in the US.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#235

Post by tyingq »

Banthum wrote: post #137
tyingq wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Isn't it the case with every group with strong identity? It's particularly troublesome in Utah because ~60% of the population is Mormon. It's not difficult to imagine a scenario where you lose your job, or an important supplier relationship because you left the church. Yes, it can happen elsewhere, but there aren't too many places in the US where a single religion is so dominant. It doesn't even have to involve leav…

>It's not difficult to imagine a scenario where you lose your job, or an important supplier relationship because you left the church. By the same token, it's not difficult to imagine a scenario where you lose your job because you live in, say, NYC, and you broke with the sacred values of the left. E.g. revealed you voted from Trump. This happens all the time. We see it on the large scale in the media quite regularly…

I've lived both places. Utah was pretty unique. Religion makes for a tighter niche than just "lots of liberals".

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#236

Post by innocentoldguy »

tyingq wrote: post #234
innocentoldguy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the case anywhere in the U.S. though? Don't local politics always reflect the cultures and opinions of those doing the voting? Isn't that by intentional design?

60% of the population being of one religion in an entire state is unique in the US.

Perhaps, but having 60% of the local populace embracing the same ideology isn't.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#237

Post by heynowletsgo »

Simply a kinder, gentler power structure. Not anything the US government hasn't pretended to be working toward for years. All it is is treating citizens as "one of your own" instead of as one of the "them". No great mystery, when power doesn't act quite as much as monstrous assholes people have a better time. People need to stop pretending like a little concern for your fellow man is some difficult, complicated, magical system design based on some secret power. When governments let people help those around them they will. Just get out of the way and give up a little control. All its ever taken for people to build a better system here is just for the Government to get out of the way.That's how the west was won, and built.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#238

Post by jordache »

paulddraper wrote: post #101

A few observations as a resident of Utah for the past 6 years (1) Fantastic for outdoor activities: skiing, mountain biking, hiking, camping. Has some of the most popular national parks in the United States (Arches, Bryce Canyon, Zion). 2/3 of the state is federally preserved. (2) Software industry is huge. Both historically (Novell, WordPerfect) and nowadays. If I had to find a SE job right now, it would take a week…

1) Distance of the SE Utah playground is just as far to SLC as Denver. So it's a moot point.

I can also confidently say the drive from Denver to SE Utah trumps the drive from SLC to SE Utah

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#239

Post by EliRivers »

anovikov wrote: post #219
literallycancer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have equal chance to end up in the top quintile when measuring income, and still do things to help your kids succeed. It would just mean that those things wouldn't depend on the family income. E.g. people whose family is more educated than the average would have better chances to end up in the top quintile by income, regardless of how much money they make.

What's the point of being more educated if you don't make more? Fancy way to waste time?

That's what it is for me. I spent five and a half years slowly doing a masters in mathematics in my own time, evenings and weekends, for the pure thrill of it.

Now I'm learning Japanese just for the sake of being able to read, write and speak Japanese. Wnet all the way to Tokyo in December for five mornings' worth of Japanese lessons (and some tourism stuff around it); just for the pleasure of learning something of interest.

As you say, a fancy way to waste time. I understand some people do other things to the same ends; movies, television, music, socialising, drugs and alcohol, dancing, art, reading, writing, building things, making things, running, climbing, swimming, on and on and on. Oh, the range of things we humans do as fancy wastes of time.

Re: How Utah Keeps the American Dream Alive

#240

Post by [deleted] »

jordache wrote: post #238
paulddraper wrote: post #101

A few observations as a resident of Utah for the past 6 years (1) Fantastic for outdoor activities: skiing, mountain biking, hiking, camping. Has some of the most popular national parks in the United States (Arches, Bryce Canyon, Zion). 2/3 of the state is federally preserved. (2) Software industry is huge. Both historically (Novell, WordPerfect) and nowadays. If I had to find a SE job right now, it would take a week…

1) Distance of the SE Utah playground is just as far to SLC as Denver. So it's a moot point. I can also confidently say the drive from Denver to SE Utah trumps the drive from SLC to SE Utah

[deleted]
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