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H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

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231–240 of 240 posts

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure we can. We can complain to them, boycott them, post stories on HN so other people know they're unethical, etc. Sure, we could do that, but unless any of those things affect profit, the business won't change. Morality doesn't motivate business, profit/money does. > Businesses are just groups of people. A business behaves ethically only if the people who make it up behave ethically. We don't lose the ability to…

All your arguments boil down to: > Morality doesn't motivate business, profit/money does. …which has literally nothing to do with the ethics of Intuit's and H&R Block's lobbying. They are knowingly doing a thing that will hurt people. That's wrong. Full stop.

I'm sorry man, but you must have missed the point from my original post.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. Can anyone else attest to this? I am going to start doing my taxes soon (for the first time in my life) and CreditKarma seems like a good solution for me.

Take a look here for some issues: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=207092 TurboTax will let you do everything except file for free. You could enter your data on both sites, and if they match, file for free with Credit Karma.

>> You could enter your data on both sites, and if they match, file [... with the product that did the math correctly]

Square quotes mine. This should be standard practice for all tax filers using an online tool or downloadable application. In most cases you, as the taxed citizen, will be held liable for any mistakes on your return. Very few situations will find the tax software provider being legally at fault for an incorrect calculation. Protect your own ass(ets) by verifying your input with separate providers. If there any discrepancies, figure out why and file with the correct result. Do not try to "get away with" filing with the provider that is most in your favor without understanding the reason; from the point of view of your government, you might be filing a fraudulent tax return. Willful negligence of tax law is not a valid excuse in their eyes.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. I think that's understandable for a brand new product, but I'd be cautious about using it this year if you don't (1) have a very simple return, (2) check their work against the IRS forms/instructions and/or (3) check against another product. (For those who don't want to give TurboTax or H&R money, I've been…

TurboTax found several thousand dollars for me in a fairly complicated tax situation that I was completely not expecting and would never have realized on my own. Even some CPAs I've talked to have said "oh, really?" They've bought some tremendous goodwill from me with that. I'm probably sticking with them forever.

For the majority of filers, your result may be the complete opposite of the norm. No tax software deserves to be mentioned as "the best solution". The worst case scenario is that a particular company promises you riches on your return, when in fact you are legally in the red for the given year. This reality can swap back and forth between the tax provider and the individual - provider X may be the best for one person, while provider Y may be the best for someone else. A single tax provider will rarely be ideal for any two people. Never go with a tax company purely based on recommendation.

The facts always outweigh any "guarantee", unless they are contractually and legally covering your refund against any wrong on their part (and even then, you have to prove you haven't lied or entered any typo on your return, in which case any mistake on your part can be seen as fraudulent). Always get a second opinion on your tax return, by manually putting in the effort to compare an initial result against a competitor. My parent says "TurboTax found several thousand dollars" in a "fairly complicated tax situation". Oh, really? Good for you. Not so much if for some reason either a) one misreports their situation, or b) "TubroTax" (or any other company) miscalculates one's personal situation.

Seriously, don't believe any recommendation for any tax software. Even if the odds of being a victim of a corporate shill are 0.0001%, you're only potentially fucking yourself. No private company can guarantee your safety against the government. Do yourself a favor and check your yearly tax return against multiple offerings to ensure they are a) not purposely misrepresenting your return, and b) don't have a bug that reports a situation differently than the facts of your case.

Yes, it's sad that I see a comment starting with "TurboTax found several thousand dollars for me in a fairly complicated tax situation" as being a possible shill. I'm sorry, but I don't care - every single tax return should be checked against multiple companies. Even if this is a legitimate customer rather than a shill, the odds of their result being representative of the majority is too much of a risk when you consider that you are 1 v. 1 against the government with each tax return. Cover your own ass(ets); don't depend on someone else to give you a recommendation for "the best tax software". Put in enough effort to determine your individual results against your government's requirements, not any private sector company's supposed "'guarantee of results'".

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#235
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it incumbent on politicians to be moral, "do the right things", but not businesses? That's a laughably arbitrary choice you're making.

What's laughable? You can choose which businesses you want to interact with anytime you want, and if you don't like their policies, choose someone else. While you can "choose" a politician, you get whoever the group chose for 2-6 years. Don't like your president or their morals? Deal with it until the next round of choice. I think that imbalance in individual authority and power gives everyone the right to hold publi…

With all due respect, "the group" decides what I can buy just as much as they decide who represents me.

Remember the time when there was a single phone out that combined flagship performance with a size that fits comfortably in one hand? Or the time when laptop manufacturers included PgUp/PgDown/Home/End keys instead of hiding all of those behind a Fn key? Or the time when I could use the internet without being tracked by every single competitor? Good luck avoiding Facebook or Google Docs when your charity has bought into those for communication?

The businesses everyone's fawning about are also the businesses who have best figured out protection from customer choice by employing lock-in and network effects. That's not choice, that's rule by moat.

Customer choice is for suckers. When a flood of ads and convenience can lure the masses, who would even pay attention to the few idiots who vote with their wallets or think of long-term market implications?

My wallet has no more effect on product availability than my vote has on the politician who represents me and what policies they support.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think carryover losses of subchapter S corporations should be handled to make them easier?

The idea is to make it easier for the average person. Those involved with subchapter S corporations are probably not amateurs and are not the target audience.

I wasn't arguing against that. Rather against the conceit that my tax situation must be the result of people conspiring to keep things complicated, when the big thing (that got me thousands of dollars) was probably something that cannot really be simplified much further. Yet TT found it for me when lots of CPAs just didn't understand it.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TurboTax found several thousand dollars for me in a fairly complicated tax situation that I was completely not expecting and would never have realized on my own. Even some CPAs I've talked to have said "oh, really?" They've bought some tremendous goodwill from me with that. I'm probably sticking with them forever.

For the majority of filers, your result may be the complete opposite of the norm. No tax software deserves to be mentioned as "the best solution". The worst case scenario is that a particular company promises you riches on your return, when in fact you are legally in the red for the given year. This reality can swap back and forth between the tax provider and the individual - provider X may be the best for one person…

You got me, developer2. I've been commenting with my real name on HN for 5 years just waiting for this moment, to get the $35 that Intuit will mail me for my comment.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (almost) have this in Canada. CRA (our version of IRS) has an Auto-fill [0] option allowing the tax preparation software to import most commonly-used data after authorization. There are some good free tax preparation software, my favourites being SimpleTax (online, web-based) and StudioTax (offline, with option to file digitally or print the completed forms for paper filing). It typically takes me less than 15 min…

SimpleTax.ca is great. I think they were initially run by just 4 people (Accountant, Designer, Programmer, and Sales).

Three of us, actually: product manager/designer, non-practicing tax lawyer, and developer. :)

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#239
post #165

They've been doing this for years. When I grumble about capitalism this is the sort of thing that annoys me. People say government is bad because it doesn't have competition and is a van intrinsically violent monopoly, but here we see an example of private actors spending money to make government unresponsive or outright antagonistic to people's needs so as to profit by serving those needs. The argument goes on that…

* When I grumble about capitalism this is the sort of thing that annoys me.* Is this a problem with capitalism or government? If a company tries to get the gov't to block competition, the correct response is "piss off".

If it wasn't clear, I think the problem is capitalism because the would-be monopolist can simply rent a politician to antagonize whoever is in charge until either the policy or the policymakers are changed. Money is not all that talks in elections, but it's a huge factor.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#240

In the Netherlands we have had this for years. You login with the tax agency and download a pre-filled tax form. Wages and Income Tax is pre-filled, as are Bank savings and morgages. The pre-filled form is complete for over 90% of people. The 10% for who it is not can add or correct things that our IRS may not know correctly (i.e. foreign holdings or bitcoins). You then digitally sign and submit it. It's quite easy t…

Same for France, the taxes can be handled on Internet (it will become compulsory some day). Everything is filled in and it literally takes 2 minutes to have it done (the gig adverts about taxes show someone who does the taxes when leaving for dinner for instance)
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