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Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

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Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#231

Every job I've worked in my adult life has involved being judged by standards the boomers doing the judging could never live up to, and then covering for their incompetence with technical skills(because I'm young, so I can just do that stuff). It would be such a sad joke if it weren't for the fact that they squat in every opportunity young people have for their futures (real estate, higher positions, etc) while the y…

Utter and complete rubbish. The 'boomers' invented most of the 'computer stuff' you use, most 'developers' today are hacks (granted, some are amazing). Boomers had difficult upbringing, brought real social change, lived through - and ended the Cold War. Female boomers were expected to be secretaries - and had to fight for the right just to do normal jobs in the workplace. Even the boys - were expected to do the same…

Not sure how this is being downvoted - the truth hurts. We just have it too damn good, and without any wide-scale struggles to know how good we have it.

I would like to a read a serious response from a detractor.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why did the generations before the Baby Boomers do so well despite having a much worse game stacked against them? I think the crisis that Millenials are facing are a case of over-parenting/over-protection, increased secularization, the rise of feminism and demonization of masculinity, and a failed higher education system.

How exactly does increased secularization and "the rise of feminism and demonization of masculinity" contribute to a crisis for this generation?

Not the OP, but the theory I've seen with those terms posits that the increased upward marketplace pressure toward tech jobs and office work have drastically increased competition for the same jobs which were typically "feminine" roles, or at least "woman-friendly" roles. Meanwhile the masculine role-workers like coal miners are being pushed out due to environmental regulation and manufacturing is currently largely automated - and as the manufacturing becomes more and more automated, the upward pressure on tech increases because we don't need factory workers, we need robotics specialists and skilled machine operators.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#233

It's not just video games either. Add Netflix and social media, and soon, VR, to the equation, and it's pretty clear that the game of life offers insufficient rewards relative to one's efforts. I don't believe we ended up here due to some grand conspiracy, but I do think that the top 1% have gotten so skilled at trapping wealth and therefore opportunity that it's really screwing over everyone else. Even as a relative…

> I don't believe we ended up here due to some grand conspiracy, > but I do think that the top 1% have gotten so skilled at trapping wealth and therefore opportunity that it's really screwing over everyone else. I've got news people: the top 1% is not forcing you to watch Netflix, consume social media, or strap a VR headset on. We live in a generation absolutely devoid of personal responsibility. And it's why ideas t…

I completely agree with this.

My immediate family and I came from having next to nothing. We busted ass and have money now. We aren't rich, but we're enjoying life in ways we couldn't growing up.

If we, instead, believed the rhetoric that life is screwed unless you came out of a "lucky vagina," we would still be broke, in Brooklyn, trying to make ends meet, and I would be another socially-inept dude that spends way too much time on games and "computers."

It's not just us either. I graduated with a bunch of people who came from similar situations and are now doing great.

Life is what you make of it.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#234

It's not just video games either. Add Netflix and social media, and soon, VR, to the equation, and it's pretty clear that the game of life offers insufficient rewards relative to one's efforts. I don't believe we ended up here due to some grand conspiracy, but I do think that the top 1% have gotten so skilled at trapping wealth and therefore opportunity that it's really screwing over everyone else. Even as a relative…

One thing that's great about gaming as an addiction: it's very inexpensive. This has been changing for the worse with all the pay to win stuff, but there's still a fair amount of cheap gaming out there. With a gaming addiction, never leaving the house and a minimal food budget I wonder how much the average gamer subsists on each month.

I had a friend whose brother would go to work and come home and play video games every day. That was literally it. Work, pay rent, game, eat sleep. I watched him repeat this cycle when we were hanging out. He didn't even have much to say most days.

The hikomori in Japan are already adopting this terminal frugality en masse.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#235
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets be clear here. What-ever the persons opinion of you should have absolutely no bearing on your professional work, and your relationship between then. I have rude clients, I have smart ass clients. Something is very clear I make it to them when I do the job, I'm doing it for money. If they think $1000 per hour is too much then they're not a client I really want to be working with. I have found you need to make it…

That works fine when they're "clients" and you have a business - they naturally accept B2B situations as equals. But when you're the employee, that doesn't work. If you make it clear that you're only in the job for the paycheck, you're going to get fired - you have to make it seem to management like you have some psychopathic desire to be there busting your ass for nine hours on their inane and unfulfilling tasks.

I have to disagree with you there. You're taking the passive approach. Go out make a name for yourself in the market place in the field you work in. Do some volunteer work as a example to build up a client base and contact list. Advertise your services to other businesses and go to business functions. Get some offers on the table, and then you know where you stand within the organisation. You cannot do it if you're a slave to your job and you're literally working 10 to 12 hours a day. Cut back, turn off the phone after work. Go for a jog and go and have a beer with competing businesses or colleges.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#237

As a teenager and early-20-something I was video-game obsessed, dropping out of sports and university, and wondering why anyone would want to devote their life to anything as pedestrian as a realistic career. At 30 I've realized how harsh and cruel the world and its people (not everyone, but many) can be, which is the primary motivation for making some big changes in my life away from video games.

As a counterpoint:

When I was 20, I had a great job and was happy with my lot in life, certain that everything was going to be okay. I was going to continue working in the public library, get the Assistant job, spin that into my MLS, and take up a Reference Librarian position.

I just turned 30 last week. The bottom dropped out of my world when the budget focus shifted to a strongly anti-education agenda when I was 23. For 7 years I have floated between jobs, trying to find something that gave me even a significant fraction of the satisfaction I had at 20. The world is harsh, cruel, and unbeatable. Some days the tabletop, online, and video gaming that I do nightly is the only thing keeping me from jumping in front of a train.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#238

I dropped out and retired at 31 to a third world country. I'm going to study whatever I'm interested in while the economy sorts itself out. I may never re-enter the job maket. I'm ok with that. I'm not rich but it's really cheap here. I don't want to be forced into a rental market or stock market. The jobs don't pay enough and the margins are too thin. The risk is too high and all of my statistical modeling is tellin…

How much did you save before you retired?

I have a $20K passive income of and living expenses of $10K. My hobbies are really cheap and centered around building skills. Programming / construction / sports. I do miss my friends in SF though. That's the biggest downside. I've been trying to encourage more to come down.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#239
post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

The "horribly stacked life" card is, in my experience, most often played by people trying to get by in the overly competitive environments of large cities. I know a lot of people don't like to hear it, but I'll let you in on a little secret: if you don't feel like you're getting anywhere trying to work and live in a major city, do yourself a favor and move to a less-populated area. Many cities have become extremely c…

If you go to rural Kentucky, you will see how wrong you are. Likewise, if you go to rural West Virginia, you will see that you are wrong.

Visit the farms in rural Arkansas, spend a few days, engage some farmhands in conversation. If you talk to at least 4 such people, then at least 1 of them will be addicted to meth. You can often detect this simply by looking at them. Often their teeth give them away.

Spend some time in rural Missouri. Go to small diners and try to engage the waitresses in conversation. If you stay a few weeks you will get to know them. You will hear stories about husbands and boyfriends who are unemployed, or who can only get sporadic work. Whole families surviving on what one woman can earn as a waitress at a small diner.

I've done a bit of traveling, and I've seen people struggling with hard times all over the USA.

And in the examples above, I'm talking about areas that are mostly white. If you really want to feel like Dante, and descend into Hell, go visit the mostly black counties in Mississippi.

For many decades now, the interior states of the USA have become increasingly poor. Wealth has been concentrating into the coasts. Farming has been mostly automated. Mining has been mostly automated. The number of coal jobs in the USA peaked in the 1940s and has declined (with some ups and downs) rather steadily over the last 7 decades.

As to automation in farming, remember that the novel "The Grapes of Wrath", by John Steinbeck, was published in 1939. The opening scene of that novel shows us a man trying to get home to his farm (after he spent some time in prison) and finding that his family has lost the farm due to the tractors, which both reduced demand for labor on the farms, and also allowed economies of scale that caused a great consolidation of the land into bigger and bigger corporate farms.

And remember too, in 1961, Ralph Abernathy (the right-hand man of Martin Luther King) gave a speech in which he warned people "The civil rights movement is in a race with the tractors." He meant that the tractors were rapidly replacing black labor on the farms, but the blacks had been kept out of most other professions, so it was urgent that the Civil Rights movement open up the rest of the economy to black people, before black people lost the last remaining farm jobs.

Most historians of agriculture in the USA will point to the 1920s as the era when farms hit their economic peak. The rural areas of the USA have been facing decline for 9 decades now.

In observance of the etiquette that is expected on Hacker News, I've tried to stick to the facts in responding to you. But I also want to be clear: your advice is terrible.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#240

Every job I've worked in my adult life has involved being judged by standards the boomers doing the judging could never live up to, and then covering for their incompetence with technical skills(because I'm young, so I can just do that stuff). It would be such a sad joke if it weren't for the fact that they squat in every opportunity young people have for their futures (real estate, higher positions, etc) while the y…

Very true. I have seen this in Australian academia: Boomer academics who were permitted to publish a paper every 2-3 years during the first 10+ years of their academic life, and/or defer getting a PhD to ludicrously late in their careers, are now elevated to senior positions supervising students and junior faculty who will not have reasonable careers unless they publish a paper every 2-3 months or better.

Well, the world just got a lot more competitive and there are a lot more people trying to get a PhD.
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