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A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

arstechnica.com

231–240 of 242 posts

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#231
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These look nice but they focus on the physical layer. Do you happen to know any useful English literature that covers the MAC layer of modern wifi standards (n, ac, ax)? Apart from the 802.11 standards, of course.

Lectures and video from http://www.cse.wustl.edu/~jain/cse574-16/index.html Book: https://www.pearsonhighered.com/program/Beard-Wireless-Commu...

Thanks!

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#232

I build public Wi-Fi networks, you've probably used one of them. AMA if you have Wi-Fi questions. To say it "sucks" is a bit harsh. It's delivering multiple hundreds of Mbps to you via an unlicensed contention-based medium. The air interface is like sending packets over a noisy Ethernet hub; it's impressive it works as well as it does. That said, this article's a good primer on some of the protocol's fundamental chal…

Seriously. Wifi is a miracle product. Even if you forget the ubiquity of it... it saves ridiculous amounts of money. 15 years ago, we'd spend like $50k to wire up new office space for 100-150 people. Now... maybe $5k with cable pull.

Yeah, it's ubiquitous but I'm not so hot on the reliability. It may save a lot of money to not wire up an office, but I wonder what the production losses are due to less reliability.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#233
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all modern laptops don't even have Ethernet ports anymore! Surely things haven't gotten this insane outside the iFruitbasket? If so I'm going to have to stock up on upgradeable refurbished laptops...

You can get USB->Ethernet adapters.

Exactly. They're very cheap, anywhere beteween $5 and $15. Cheap enough to basically add them to every ethernet drop where you regularly sit.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#234
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, it's better "in all aspects but mobility"? You're kidding. You may as well complain that batteries suck because the only advantage they have over just plugging something in is portability.

In a practical sense I use most wifi about 2m from an AP, and usually on a laptop which is already plugged in. Realistically hi power USB3 is what I should put as ports around my house and just deliver Ethernet that way.

That is a very interesting idea. I've seen power sockets with USB-A ports. When we move to USB-C, that same port could actually identify itself as a dock, offering both power and Ethernet.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#235
post #222

Fortunately my Mac doesn't have Ethernet. Wait...

I think that if I was to buy a computer and notice it's missing an ethernet port, I would return it as defect...

It's not a big deal. USB-based adapters usually don't need drivers and are $5 to $15, so cheap enough to just put on every desk you usually sit.

I've got office space as well as a desk at a regular client. On both desks, there's a USB hub with an ethernet adapter hooked up. I plunk down my laptop, connect to the hub and I'm done.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#236
post #48

My loved one went for a junior sysadmin job. They'd decided to remove all the wiring and use wifi for everything because of just the sorta hype mentioned here. Loved one pulled out a Palm Tungsten C and proceeded to crack all their WEP passwords there in the interview. Got the job too ... and the task of putting quite a bit of wiring back.

The Tungsten doesn't support RFMON, thus it can't do packet injection, not sure how this was achieved. The most Palm OS could do was run NetStumbler, which does discovery by active beacon probing. Maybe with a Zaurus, Libretto, or other small pocket-sized Linux machine of that era, sure.

I just asked and it was indeed a Tungsten C (the Tungsten C was a pretty l33t beast for a handheld in that era, I had one too and loved it a lot), but I got the story wrong - the wifi wasn't secured at all. Let me remind you again that they'd replaced their wired network with this unsecured wifi network. Their business was online marketing for companies even more clueless about technology than they were. (Replacing the unsecured wifi with wired was indeed the first job.)

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#237
post #46

My loved one went for a junior sysadmin job. They'd decided to remove all the wiring and use wifi for everything because of just the sorta hype mentioned here. Loved one pulled out a Palm Tungsten C and proceeded to crack all their WEP passwords there in the interview. Got the job too ... and the task of putting quite a bit of wiring back.

WEP passwords? What year is it again?

2005ish, when WEP was frequently all that wifi points did.

I got the story wrong (just checked) - the wifi wasn't secured at all. :-O

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#238
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky he/she didn't get arrested.

For what? Cracking passwords offline isn't illegal as long as you don't use the passwords to gain unauthorized access to a system and you don't share the password with anyone other than the rightful owners. There's nothing wrong with cracking a WiFi network's WEP password in front of the owner of the network in order to demonstrate WEP's weak security. You would have to actually connect to the network to commit unaut…

See other side comments - I got the story wrong, the wifi wasn't secured at all.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#239

Wifi sucks because Ethernet is still better in all aspects but mobility to this day.

Wow, it's better "in all aspects but mobility"? You're kidding. You may as well complain that batteries suck because the only advantage they have over just plugging something in is portability.

The phrasing was not optimal on my part. What I meant was:

Wifi has a huge advantage and that's portability. It totally makes sense in this fast-paced, moving, all-encompassing networked world, but wifi still lags behind ethernet for all other aspects :

- Security

- Stability

- Bandwidth

- Health (I am not sure if the science is settled on whether or not wifi may be detrimental to one's health, but it does raise more concerns than ethernet)

But you're absolutely right that wifi does still bring an essential factor in the equation, the ability to move around.

Re: A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks

#240
post #80

The author kinda bungles his analogy/explanation of collision avoidance and detection. Wireless networks don't use CSMA/CD. They use CSMA/CA. There's a huge difference, and it's one big reason why wireless throughput won't ever come close to PHY speed. Wired ethernet uses CSMA/CD and it's one of the reasons it won the LAN networking wars of the 80's and 90's.

Do today's wired networks (1G+/FD/Cat6/fiber) still use CSMA/CD? I was under the impression that they don't.

Switched networks are full duplex, point-to-point links, so there's no possibility of a collision from the transmitting station. That said, 802.3 still mentions CSMA/CD for half-duplex backward compatibility. Everything 10gig and above requires full duplex though.
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