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The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

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Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#231
post #79

Although not directly development related. The most impressive book I've had the pleasure of reading is "Gödel Escher Bach: An eternal golden braid" (also known as GEB) from Douglas Hofstadter. It's hard to explain what it is about exactly, but it contains ideas and concepts from mathematics, computer science, philosophy and conscience. All of it is explained in very clear and interesting way. I can recommend it to a…

It seems there is a MIT OCW course on it : https://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/humanities-and-social-scienc... .

Has anybody seen the lectures? how does it compare to reading the book? Are the lectures sufficient?

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#232
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is discussing an effect of the book, not the intent. Do you truly believe that specific DP book caused that effect? I don't. The DP book is extremely dry reading and most programmers have not actually read it. ([In terms of readership/ownership ratio] It's a book like Stephen Hawking's "Brief History of Time" ... everybody knows about it and some might have it on the coffee table but very few actually read it.) I…

I'm actually with the others on this. I've been looking at CompSci papers, engineering methodologies, and real world code going back a long time. I saw a few patterns in use like Parnas' information hiding or state machines. I didn't see GoF patterns until I saw Java people using them while recommending the book. Also, many people in industry forgot about prior methodologies that got results without over-abstraction…

do you know where I could find those other patterns?

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually with the others on this. I've been looking at CompSci papers, engineering methodologies, and real world code going back a long time. I saw a few patterns in use like Parnas' information hiding or state machines. I didn't see GoF patterns until I saw Java people using them while recommending the book. Also, many people in industry forgot about prior methodologies that got results without over-abstraction…

do you know where I could find those other patterns?

You probably have already seen them. It was just things such as structured programming, decomposition into functions, layering with minimal loops between layers, interface checks for invariants, avoiding risky languages/constructs, and usage-based testing.

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#234

JS: The Good Parts is obsolete

Really? It's certainly incomplete , as there are some new good parts. But most of the language is still there, and I'd rather imagine the same perspective that helped a lot of programmers coming from other languages adapt to it is still helpful.

True, but some of the things Crockford moans at have been fixed in ES6/ES7

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#235
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because GEB is, in many regards, pop-science (or pop-math). It's a fun introductory read, but it won't really (and by really I mean rigorously) explain (and by explain I mean prove) much of anything. Any reference to it in the context of academia is a bit on the nose. It's like trying to study piano and saying you love Mozart. Like, yeah, okay.

What's wrong with Mozart? He is popular for a reason: he is freaking great. I hate that some people smugly dismiss things that are popular as beneath them, or conversely, that you have to like hyper-obscure artist or else you're not into real art. Bullshit, Mozart is great.

It might be that, in GP's experience, people who straightaway reply "I love Mozart" are less likely to actually have heard a substantial amount of his work, perhaps to have sat with them for some time, and (for lack of a better word) pondered over them, than someone who says they like something else but replies in a manner that sounds more sophisticated, e.g. "I enjoy the structure inherent in Bach's music" or what-have-you. (I might just be putting words in their mouth, though. Apologies if that's the case.) Answers of the latter kind can indicate that one has actually spent some time thinking about whatever it is one has learned, however elementary it might be. And that's always great!

It's probably the equivalent of someone saying "omg fractals" or "the incompleteness theorems, man, math is broken, I find that so beautiful" in response to "So you like math/CS?" After a while, that becomes a red flag that you learn to small-talk your way out of, albeit with some shame: while I agree with GP, to some extent, I do understand how this can be exclusionary, though. Almost by construction, someone who isn't in really deep is far more likely to have met the parts of a field that have been popularized than other things, and putting them down for this can be counterproductive if you're looking to attract more people or, well, just evangelize. I don't know of a good way out of this.

I do seem to have noticed that this isn't the case if you replace "fractals" by, say, "differential equations" or even "trisection". Maybe what one really needs to avoid in introductory literature is powerful ideas that are easy to lossily summarize for a lay audience in the form of really general, unexpected-sounding incorrect-when-unqualified statements that seem to say profound things about life, the universe, and everything. Leaving off the last condition shouldn't make an appreciable difference in hype/excitement-generating power: you could very well do, say, some topological/geometric staple like the hairy ball theorem, or some knot theory, and so on. That way, you retain the visual appeal that $REALLY_BIG_NUMBER-x zooms of Mandelbrot give you, while significantly decreasing the tendency for the target to go into (partial or full) "woah, dude, everything is connected and I am pure energy" mode in the way that Gödel often does.[0]

As an aside, GEB can be a good (rigorous, even) introduction to a few very powerful ideas. For me, what I call "interpreter-y thinking" was a good example, as was a healthy respect for how complex emergent behavior can arise from simple rules. This is something that's unfortunately hampered by the "bag of really cool ideas" nature that the book seemed to have when I read it four or five years ago.

[0]: I've actually heard the "everything is connected" bit from a good friend who loves watching videos like in TFV, so it isn't entirely a strawman. :)

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#236
post #157
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a harsh critique, can you elaborate?

Recursion, self reference, emergent properties are important topics and there are many good resources for studying them, GEB just isn't one of them. Most people that embark on the journey of reading the book fail and are unable to complete it. I believe the author tried to make the book itself some kind of self referential repeating work of art, which might be appealing to some but doesn't end up giving a rigorous tr…

I read it when it first came out; I was 18, and it was formative in my early career in CS. For someone in their teens it was a wonderful introduction to things that my high school education never really touched.

I don't know if I'd have the patience to read it today.

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#237
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't bother, it is an incomprehensible mess, impossible to get through, pretentious, non rigurous sloppy thinking, and ultimately a disservice to Godels incompleteness theorem.

I got about 200 pages in, and just could not continue with it. 'incomprehensible mess' would perfectly describe my sentiments. As having taken undergrad/grad courses in logic and set theory, any interesting nuggets about recursion/completeness/incompleteness/etc that one could glean from GEB can much more coherently and succinctly be obtained from a proper book on logic/computability. The counterargument would be tha…

I had trouble getting through GEB because I felt like I couldn't quite grasp logic/set theory/whatever beyond the first section or so. It's good to hear that perhaps they're not as well-explained as I thought and that perhaps other avenues make it more accessible to me.

Do you have any suggestions where to start? Are there perhaps online 'starter kits' that would guide me through what courses/books/whatever to work through? I find that one of the most difficult parts of self-learning: there's often no clear syllabus available.

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Mozart? He is popular for a reason: he is freaking great. I hate that some people smugly dismiss things that are popular as beneath them, or conversely, that you have to like hyper-obscure artist or else you're not into real art. Bullshit, Mozart is great.

It might be that, in GP's experience, people who straightaway reply "I love Mozart" are less likely to actually have heard a substantial amount of his work, perhaps to have sat with them for some time, and (for lack of a better word) pondered over them, than someone who says they like something else but replies in a manner that sounds more sophisticated, e.g. "I enjoy the structure inherent in Bach's music" or what-h…

Okay, fair enough. I agree 100%.

Re: The most mentioned books on Stack Overflow

#240
post #193
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it mentions GEB, off it goes into the circular file Why?

Because GEB is, in many regards, pop-science (or pop-math). It's a fun introductory read, but it won't really (and by really I mean rigorously) explain (and by explain I mean prove) much of anything. Any reference to it in the context of academia is a bit on the nose. It's like trying to study piano and saying you love Mozart. Like, yeah, okay.

> it won't really (and by really I mean rigorously) explain (and by explain I mean prove) much of anything

Sentence would be a lot shorter if you had just said "it won't rigorously prove much of anything."

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