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Computer Science Education

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Re: Computer Science Education

#231

Post by projektir »

I'm going to express an annoyance that I usually have with things like this. It's not really a Google problem, or a computer science problem. More of a society problem.

Why is everything related to education always targeted at young people? My ability to synthesize new knowledge has increased substantially after I was already out of college for a few years. But once you are in that age range, educational resources suddenly dissipate. Well, it's not the only thing that dissipates...

But, seriously, the amount of resources that were thrown at me while I was younger was ridiculous. Interestingly enough, I could hardly keep up with it.

A bit odd that everyone acts as if they think that there's no chance of developing people further after the age of 25 or so. Do they really have a much higher demand for fresh grads, as opposed to people with experience? Is it that much harder to get a shallow understanding of computer science as opposed to a deep one?

Re: Computer Science Education

#232

Post by projektir »

whyileft wrote: post #182
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is mostly about female to male ratios. Certainly we need more women programmers, but there aren't enough to hire. Every company I've ever worked at wanted more women, but there aren't enough graduates. At google, one way they were able to hire women devs was to pay for women were were stem students to go to the grace murray hopper conference who were cs students and then interview them and hire them on t…

Everywhere I've been begs for female applicants. I feel like the low numbers of women trying to get into tech is a fantastic example of how market forces do not solve everything. There is an enormous gap between the supply of female applicants and the demand for them with little change in sight. To any women reading this comment. Places are desperate to hire you so do not be afraid to apply at places where you feel y…

> Places are desperate to hire you so do not be afraid to apply at places where you feel you may be a little under qualified.

My automatic reaction to this was "lol what"...

I don't really think most companies are desperate to hire women. I can see companies paying more attention to women (for better or for worse), but desperate is absolutely not the word I'd use. You're still going through the same interview process as everyone else, and having interacted with various people who were applying to the same companies as myself, everything looked exactly the same and acceptance/rejection rates were very similar. It's not like being a woman waves a magic wand to get rid of the many troublesome parts of an interview process that affect men and women all the same.

I don't know if I'd want to work for a company that was desperate to hire a specific subgroup of people, anyway...

I'd take a referral over being female any day.

Re: Computer Science Education

#233

Post by sn9 »

Raphmedia wrote: post #218
joe563323 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost the whole population of earth is affected by computers on a daily basis. Seems logical for the citizens to know the fundamentals irrespective of the domain they are in. Because almost all the domains will be soon run through computers.

But we live in a tech bubble. The fact that we lurk and post on HN is the proof of it. Of course knowing computers makes sense to us as a requirement to be an educated citizen of the world. Take a step back. All of the following are vital to our modern lives yet most people will only be able to check 2 or 3 of them. - cars mechanics - electronics / electricity - radio / telecommunications - computers - plumbing - hun…

Who said anything about advanced knowledge?

We're talking basic literacy.

You should at least know how to learn more about most of those subjects as they're needed, or know who to talk to when specialist knowledge may be required.

Re: Computer Science Education

#234

Post by sn9 »

xiaoma wrote: post #16

Are they offering anything on the site for people who want CS education? From clicking around a bit it seemed like it was focused entirely on people teaching and learning in physical classrooms. I was pretty excited at first, thinking this was something like a Google-sponsored version of EdX or OpenCourseware that was laser focused on CS.

They have some courses on Udacity, but there are so many great resources available that it wouldn't make sense to reinvent the wheel.

https://www.google.com/about/careers/students/guide-to-techn...

Re: Computer Science Education

#235

Post by bruceb »

cr0sh wrote: post #162
bruceb wrote: post #22

We replicated a CS degree path which you can fill with free MOOCs: https://www.coursebuffet.com/degree Admittedly we have left our course list dormant for a while but we will be pushing an update in a few weeks.

I'm a big proponent of MOOCs, having participated in a few, and currently taking the Udacity Self-Driving Car Engineer Nanodegree (the others I took also revolved around ML). That said, the thing that bugs me about them is how they may be perceived by a potential employer? Granted, anyone can put on their resume/cv that they went to school x/y/z and gained a BA or MA; most employers probably don't even look at it. Bu…

I don't disagree that "Having that piece of documentation from an accredited school means something"

If one can go to a top or mid-tier school then one should go. But that is not a reality for some people. There are also a lot of people who went to a university but after a few years wished they had studied something else.

We wanted to give people a dead simple way to replicate a degree/minor path if going to a "real university" was not available or to inconvenient.

Re: Computer Science Education

#236

Post by reitanqild »

FT_intern wrote: post #205
reitanqild wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I was a lot younger then. Furthermore I was answering a direct question: "What is the problem?" Also I put the "privileged" word in quotes for a reason: while being male gives me a number of advantages it also gives me a number of disadvantages. Furthermore there is all the rest: coming from a low socioeconomic background should account for a lot as well (buying a pc was a huge deal - I think I was 15 when…

I can see that. It must be very juxtaposing to see upper middle class blacks/hispanics/females (the typical "oppressed minority" working at big tech companies) getting special benefits.

Typically I don't care.

All I want from people I work with is that they are good so we can move projects forward and that they don't bully or otherwise negatively affect lives of people around them.

Re: Computer Science Education

#237

Post by wildmusings »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #204
xtreme wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. That is like saying that an educated citizen must: * have an informed opinion on current Emission standards * be able to change oil on their own car * could describe how a 4-stroke engine works Replace the computer with a car and you will see that what you consider basic knowledge is not basic to most people. They rely on experts for advice, opinion, and guidance.

Call me a nerd, but I'd call all of your points a pretty basic requirements for a citizen of a technological civilization. Failing that, we end up with lot of crazy beliefs about the world that people wouldn't have if they hadn't forgotten 99% of stuff they spent learning in high school.

Why does someone need to know how to change the oil in their car, or how a 4-stroke engine works? The information is readily available if you should ever need it, but what's wrong with paying someone who does know that stuff?

Re: Computer Science Education

#238

Post by wildmusings »

chillydawg wrote: post #30

I look at that page and all I see is icons for Word, Powerpoint, Access and Excel in a line. My brain has been hard-branded for so long. Google need to change that page a bit.

My punishment for reading the comments before clicking the link is that now I'll never know what I would have seen.

Re: Computer Science Education

#239

Post by flukus »

jkaptur wrote: post #192
duderific wrote: post #180

> Computers are everywhere in our world today and being an educated citizen requires an understanding of the fundamentals of computer science and its underlying problem-solving methodology of computational thinking. I know this is just some copywriter writing this, but this seems the height of Silicon Valley bubble thinking. Plenty of people do just fine in their lives barely interacting with computers at all. Sure,…

Plenty of people "do just fine in their lives" without knowing how to read. This is discussing how to "be an educated citizen", a far higher bar. An educated citizen: * can have an informed opinion about the NSA's definition of "collecting" information [0]. * when told "we need to make sure that this list of 100,000 URLs are all valid websites", doesn't respond "wow, we'll need to hire a big team". * can reason about…

Citizens don't need to be educated, they need to listen to people that are. The problem lately (possibly always) is that the information exchange is being intercepted by special interests.

Re: Computer Science Education

#240

Post by TeMPOraL »

wildmusings wrote: post #237
TeMPOraL wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a nerd, but I'd call all of your points a pretty basic requirements for a citizen of a technological civilization. Failing that, we end up with lot of crazy beliefs about the world that people wouldn't have if they hadn't forgotten 99% of stuff they spent learning in high school.

Why does someone need to know how to change the oil in their car, or how a 4-stroke engine works? The information is readily available if you should ever need it, but what's wrong with paying someone who does know that stuff?

Not having a basic understanding of how internal combustion engines work means not understanding one of the linchpins of our civilization as it is today.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be using third-party services - professional specialization is another linchpin of our civilization. All I'm saying is that people should understand these things, in order to have a chance of comprehending the world they live in.

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