AI Beats Four Top Poker Players • Hacker News Board

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#231

Post by xapata » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 7:13 PM UTC

brilliantcode wrote: post #206

notahacker wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the foreseeable future, machine learning experts will be in sufficient supply for them (i) to have wages which are considerably above zero and (ii) have the ability to raise capital from people that don't think they're commodity labour (it cuts the other way too: if an oversupply of labour in a field as difficult-to-learn as ML does arise, the demand shortage causing wages to fall is almost certainly because ML t…

It's not enough to hire a machine learning expert if you are planning on building out your own capable ML operation confident in competing against the best and the brightest at Azure, Google & AWS. You'd need a team of ML experts. On the other hand, it's easier to piggy back off the hard work of highly paid experts in this space now commoditized into 1/10th of a cent per application of an ML algorithm from Microsoft…

I think that idea is largely responsible for the decline of HP, IBM, etc.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#232

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

brilliantcode wrote: post #73

deepnotderp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "So the question is, how does an average joe hacker like me exploit and leverage this wonderful thing called deep learning? I'm not interested in reading PHD papers with advanced calculus." FFS, if you're not willing to read a paper with BASIC CALCULUS (it's HS/college, not advanced like fractional), then I'm not sure machine learning is the right place for you.

Sure it is. Much like most developers don't spend their time reading on computing science papers to do their job, I question why such academic rigour is to be demanded from somebody trying to capitalize on the arbitrage opportunity. Math is good but my time won't be best used if I have to learn calculus all over again just to begin understanding the linguo. Rather have a generic model of what to use and when, hire th…

Remember "idea-men"?

"Listen I have this great idea for a web app, it's going to be like the Facebook for hardware stores [or whatever] and people can rate/vote/tag ... I got the whole idea worked out, I just need someone to program it for me" etc. Every programmer has heard these kinds of proposals many times.

One (of many) problems with this kind of proposal is that the idea-man, unable to program (and not wanting to learn) has no idea about the complexity of what they're asking. And even if they think they have the whole idea worked out, not being able to program means they probably missed a lot of shortcuts, possibilities and best practices. The worst ones hand-wave this with the possibility of a fresh outsider-look on things! Except that the whole (fully worked-out) idea probably needs to be reworked entirely before it's even feasible or competitive. The programmer would probably have been better off without the idea, cause that's where it started to go wrong.

Similarly, if you believe math isn't worth your time but instead want to hire ML experts to implement your ML-related ideas (formulated in terms of "expected business outcome"), puts you in a very similar role.

(Tongue-in-cheek) I got a really great idea, the expected business outcome is: make lots of profit. It's fool-proof. I checked with some of my people and they agreed, making profit is a solid idea. I just need some business dude to implement for me. I'm not really sure what sort of business person, my time can be spent better than learning about subtleties between sorts of business people. I just need to hire a good one. But remember, the idea was mine first.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#233

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

maverick_iceman wrote: post #172

brilliantcode wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found calculus and academia generally very difficult. I'm happy to know that you don't suffer from this terrible affliction which makes studying difficult. You don't need to know programming if you understand your workers and they understand it enough to convey to you the time & resource constraints. I have a million dollars for this project. What are the features and functions that will maximize my returns? Hire a…

>Hire a couple of smart engineers who already holds the technical knowledge Then exactly what value are you bringing to the table? Money? Sales skills? If that's the case then why focus on ML/AI technologies? Any company needs money or sales expertise.

Pretty sure it's going to be his unique talent of making employees feel valued within the business, his charisma and sharp ability to clearly convey his business ideas and cohesive argumentation skills when asked about the giant holes in them ...

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#234

Post by rograndom » Tue, Feb 07, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

mod wrote: post #209

rograndom wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Big Game" which was run by Doyle Brunson, Chip Reese, etc had nothing to do with HUNL. It's mostly run hoping that some inexperienced player would drop in. It also almost always ran as a rotation of games to both bring in players who though they had an edge in "their" game and then exploit them in the other games. The Big Game and online HUNL are both technically "poker" but they are truly completely different g…

I'm fully aware--I was a poker pro for a while in a niche (HUSNGs). The post I responded to slighted Negreanu, saying he wasn't a "top pro." He certainly is. Not a HU cash pro, of course, but a top pro? Absolutely. A match for the "best pro players?" Certainly. The "best pro players" in a given niche wouldn't have sat in the big game, and he wouldn't have sat in their specialty. Overall he's the better poker player.

I certainly agree with you that Negreanu is a top pro. I thought I was responding to the parent post from marklgr. Current threading looks like I missed a couple of levels.