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The Problem with AMP

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Re: The Problem with AMP

#231

Post by mike-cardwell »

greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

If "you" use Chrome, then Amp is your fault. You gave an advertising company control of the Web.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#232

Post by christop »

> Techniques such as subresource integrity should be used where appropriate.

While this is a good recommendation, I'm not sure this is possible with AMP, as they don't provide versioned URLs; the JS loaded keeps changing over time.

Edit: Indeed, this was rejected: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/534

Re: The Problem with AMP

#233

Post by nrjdhsbsid »

greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

The crazy thing is that AMP is open source and this is still happening. I've been tracking their GitHub and what is happening is that while yes, the source is open, they won't let you add anything they don't like.

Oh, and if you try to fork AMP you fail the official validators and suddenly your site isn't AMP anymore. What is happening in this case is that open source is doing nothing to stop AMP from being proprietary because it's worthless unless you have the "blessed" version.

Take for example the most obvious change, to make the original URL visible in the banner. There's tens maybe hundreds of GitHub issues on this and it's still languishing. In the rare case anyone official replies it's some bs about how it will affect the user experience or "interfere with Google's cache" in some roundabout and unspecified way. They leave a few of these issues open so that whenever you start another they can close it as a duplicate. Otherwise their repo would be overrun with them.

Open source doesn't matter if someone holds the keys to the kingdom and "validates" your sources. A dark pattern indeed.

AMP in its current form is certainly evil. The only way that could be changed is if Google opens up the ability to cache the page by a different provider with different validators.

I smell antitrust

Re: The Problem with AMP

#234

Post by cableshaft »

Angostura wrote: post #157
tehlike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really curious if an ordinary user gets frustrated with AMP as much as an HN reader does. PS: Not intending to be sarcastic. PS2: I work for google, but not on something amp related.

Prople in my family get quite confused when trying to share links.

This is my main problem with it. I don't mind too much that it loads an AMP page (well, I don't know, I go back and forth on it), it's the fact that if I want to share the page afterwards, I want the page to be shared to be the original site, not the AMP site, and finding a non-AMP version of the link is damn near impossible.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#235

Post by [deleted] »

Angostura wrote: post #157
tehlike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really curious if an ordinary user gets frustrated with AMP as much as an HN reader does. PS: Not intending to be sarcastic. PS2: I work for google, but not on something amp related.

Prople in my family get quite confused when trying to share links.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with AMP

#236

Post by noisem4ker »

m-p-3 wrote: post #88
freyir wrote: post #6

AMP is one of the most frustrating experiences I've had with Google. the fact that it's foisted on users, with no option to disable it, makes it borderline infuriating. If you're stuck on an AMP page in your mobile browser, you can click on the browser's "Request desktop site" option to load the full page.

AMP is the reason why I stopped using Google News on mobile. They butchered again one of their product. I'm glad that RSS feeds are still a thing.

Old versions still work like they should. I'm on v. 2.5.2 myself to avoid AMP.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#237

Post by saurik »

NTripleOne wrote: post #227
samat wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is responsive layout! Something people love

A poorly made responsive layout* If it was any good, it would be showing the desktop scaling/layout/whatever instead of the mobile when 'show desktop version' is on. It's also not always about being on a responsive sites, a lot of places still do a m.website.com redirect when visiting the main site from a mobile device, but with no backwards redirect when visiting the mobile site (which is almost certainly non-respon…

The website has no way of knowing you did that: this is actually Apple's fault for not changing the logical browser dimensions when you use this feature.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#238

Post by acdha »

amorphid wrote: post #103
alistproducer2 wrote: post #30

I make my own amp pages by keeping JavaScript turned off on my phone. 95℅ of pages work and load instantly. Those that don't, I turn on JavaScript. If I go to those pages a lot I add them to my exception list. Sorry but I'm not an amp believer.

It just took me 8 clicks and a couple swipes to disable JS in my mobile browser, Chrome on Android. Another 8 clicks and couple swipes to enable JS. Is there a faster way to do that?

I use Brave mostly because it has a side panel which makes that two taps to reload the page with JavaScript enabled and remembers those settings per hostname. It really trims down page load times and metered data transfer.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#239

Post by adentranter »

gedrap wrote: post #213
ejcx wrote: post #29

One thing I love about AMP, that seems to never be mentioned when people discuss it, is viewing AMP-HTML pages on my laptop. I wrote a small chrome extension that always forwards my page to the equivalent AMP page (if one exists) and the experience of reading the news is so much better. AMP pages off mobile are really really amazing. Compare Non-AMP[0] vs AMP[1] [0] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Trump-on-the-…

Firefox has 'reading mode' that does similar, strips out all the stuff such as sidebars, etc, without most of the downside associated with AMP (being open, to start with). Occasionally it misses some media stuff (e.g. embedded videos), but works well vast majority of the time so I'm happy with it.

Makes me sad that they pushed AMP vs creating a standard format for how 'reading mode' content is selected.

This probably would speed up loading times as it would only have to display/load certain content.

I love 'reading mode' on firefox and safari (mobile). Unsure what other browsers support it but they all should.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#240

Post by driverdan »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #231
greenspot wrote: post #162

Google is abusing its powers. The search rank is our currency and Google has pushed AMP sites to the top for some while. So, everybody is now building weird AMP layers for their sites. We went from a free to a proprietary mobile web in just a few weeks. And we can't do anything. It feels like the times when the Internet Explorer tried to rule except that more people were complaining. The open solution to a faster mob…

If "you" use Chrome, then Amp is your fault. You gave an advertising company control of the Web.

AMP and Chrome are two completely independent things.
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