Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 251 posts

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#231

Post by bdickason »

smpetrey wrote: post #206
ghaff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do indeed want to get from Point A to point B quickly. That's why there are around 75,000 plane flights per day. There are very few city pairs in the US with the potential volume to justify high speed rail. There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively f…

> There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively few people would take it given that flying would be significantly faster. Texan living in NYC here. I disagree. I would happily pay to take a 6 hour train to Chicago over a flight anyday. LGA/JFK are nightmares to book…

Also a Texan who lived in NYC :D and now lives in the bay area. I'm constantly amazed that we haven't placed a solid, high speed rail throughout this area.

Housing costs are skyrocketing and you have people who work for all ends of the spectrum (Google down to dishwashers) moving away because they can't afford the lifestyle they envision here. Hour long commutes are the norm and every day I see at least one wreck on my way to work.

Coming from NYC where you can get anywhere in Manhattan w/in 20 minutes by train.. it's incredibly frustrating.

I agree we should also be looking outside of the bay area (connecting cities across America), but also see a pressing need here with a market that would use the rail system like crazy.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#232

Post by Markoff »

djsumdog wrote: post #127
Markoff wrote: post #123

as someone who lived better half of decade in China I don't find it that amazing 1. growth of HSR meant less and less slower trains = higher prices of tickets, less available to poorer people 2. prices of these train tickets are actually higher than LCC airways in Europe which will transport me much faster anywhere than HSR 3. buying ticket during peak periods is very difficult 4. train station procedures take probab…

Wait, so you have full security screenings for the high speed rail? (Most of Europe's high speed rail goes through the same train stations and standard commuter rail, so there's no additional screening .. although if you're crossing from Belgium to Germany they do often search trains for marijuana) at border stations.

yes, there is first check to get even inside train station, you must have ticket, then right after that is security check, then in some stations there is another check to enter boarding room, then to leave boarding room to platform there is another check and then in the train they check your ticket again, also when leaving station in destination they will again check your ticket to let you go

it's HSR with communist characteristics

no thanks, i will rather use show train in Europe where i can walk straight from my room to train with ticket in my mobile instead of Chinese harassment with thousands of people pushing you all around, it's just one disgusting experience, even Chinese airports are faster and more pleasant

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#233

Post by aminok »

robotresearcher wrote: post #109
aminok wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure abandoning the rule of law, protection of private property, labour protections, at least an attempt at the appearance of corruption-free tenders, high safety standards and the principle that people who are affected should be consulted is worthy of much awe. Two points: 1. The income tax that pays for the UK's lavish welfare system violates private property (and privacy) rights on a massive scale. It ju…

All property and privacy rights are societal norms in the first place. Society isn't violating any natural rights by taxing you. On the contrary, modern society actively protects you from having all your stuff taken by anyone strong enough to take it.

Both private property and privacy rights are human rights that no society has a right to violate.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#234

Post by jarboot »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #73
jarboot wrote: post #67

Currently in China and frequently using the train system here. I really wish something like this could happen in a country as big as the US. What's stopping them? Politicians? Land rights? Lack of resources?

Gentrified western economies have economic growth of around 2% on average. Developing countries moving from mostly rural or controlled economies to market industrialized economies can, and do, have growth of around 10% or more. That's a fairly big difference in available funds for capital projects. The same way the US was building trains in NYC, Chicago, etc 100 years ago, China and others are doing so today, but wit…

Thanks for the detailed response. I never realized how much utility the US plane system has.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#235

Post by kevinnk »

NamTaf wrote: post #218
kevinnk wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure you're correct and those numbers are total since 1950. However, the study does seem confusingly worded - in the footnote on page 1 it says: "All estimates quoted are in constant 2010 dollars, unless otherwise noted, and refer to actual expenditures in the relevant fiscal year, rounded to the nearest billion" At least to me that reads like "all estimates refer to expenditures from the relevant fiscal y…

I think you are. I interpret that as the estimates for each year are quoted in 2010 dollars unless noted and that those estimates (that is, the ones for each year) refer to actuals in each of those years. Then they are summed to produce the $600b. "from the relevant fiscal year" implies that each value relates to a corresponding fiscal year. Your addition of 'only' is redundant.

But the estimates the footnote is referring to are in the first table. Those are not per year but already summed; there's no corresponding fiscal year to refer to (I think?).

Regardless, this is a tiny point so I'll drop it. I still feel confused though :(

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#236

Post by sumedh »

Rezo wrote: post #35

Saw this amazing photo of Chinese high-speed trains just the other day: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-he... Now that's some serious infrastructure investment!

That picture is so cool.

I keep reading reading in Indian newspapers where our politicians keep on saying we have to catch up to China but I just dont think its possible.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#237

Post by D_Alex »

smpetrey wrote: post #206
ghaff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do indeed want to get from Point A to point B quickly. That's why there are around 75,000 plane flights per day. There are very few city pairs in the US with the potential volume to justify high speed rail. There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively f…

> There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively few people would take it given that flying would be significantly faster. Texan living in NYC here. I disagree. I would happily pay to take a 6 hour train to Chicago over a flight anyday. LGA/JFK are nightmares to book…

>if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago

You know, that's not terribly fast... 1200 km in 6 hrs, so 200 km/hr. France started operating 320 km/hr trains in 1990's. Do you think people would go by rail if the journey was 4 hours, city center - to - city center?

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#238

Post by rangibaby »

ajmurmann wrote: post #161
ghaff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do indeed want to get from Point A to point B quickly. That's why there are around 75,000 plane flights per day. There are very few city pairs in the US with the potential volume to justify high speed rail. There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively f…

I think your point is generally valid for the US. However, Chicago-NYC might be a bad example, since it actuality might be viable. The Shinkansen goes ~200mp/h and thus would be able to go back and forth in 4-5hrs. Given that trains are less weather dependent, can drop you off on there middle of the city rather than the outskirts and don't come with the same security theater you probably come out with a comparable ti…

Shinkansen is actually quite weather dependent.

All trains will stop at the first safe opportunity in the event of heavy rain, winds, or snow. It's one of the reasons (no level crossings is another) there has never been a fatal accident involving HSR in Japan.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#239

Post by jdpedrie »

jungturk wrote: post #129
jdpedrie wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oil company build a pipeline This happens. > rail company build a high speed train track This doesn't. There are actually companies that want to build oil pipelines. How many privately funded companies are there that want to (and have the means to) build a high-speed rail line?

There's one in Texas attempting to do so: http://www.texascentral.com/project/ Serious hyperloop contenders may well emerge soon, too.

I'd love to see that rail happen. Nowhere near Texas, but it would be cool. That said, Texas isn't really representative of the rest of the country.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#240

Post by jdpedrie »

vkou wrote: post #229
jdpedrie wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oil company build a pipeline This happens. > rail company build a high speed train track This doesn't. There are actually companies that want to build oil pipelines. How many privately funded companies are there that want to (and have the means to) build a high-speed rail line?

How many privately funded companies would even consider doing so in the current regulatory climate? There's a bit of survivourship bias at play, here! Likewise, if the oil were extracted by the state, rather then a private firm, it would also not have any problems with piping it over private property.

Perhaps, but it's not as though the popularity of oil pipelines is especially high. They still get built! If anything, much of the bureaucracy and public would far prefer to build high speed rail in place of a pipeline. Certainly neither face a particularly positive regulatory environment.

I'm not sure what your second point is getting at. Rail lines face pretty huge eminent domain burdens along with everything else.

My point was mostly that the hurdles of building rail and pipelines are both quite high. The economic benefit of oil pipelines are enough to make them worth the trouble to a private firm. Rail, not so much.

Post reply on HN