The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#231

Post by tracker1 » Sat, Dec 31, 2016, 10:05 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #222

dx034 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still means that the US could probably rely on domestic production if it was forced to do so. In a war, no other country could leverage their position by threatening to stop food exports to the US. It would surely result in less choice, but wouldn't really hurt the US.

> wouldn't really hurt the US. My expectation is that it would far more expensive, raising food prices and doing significant harm to the economy. Also imagine the massive costs of shifting production and the gap in food availability during the shift. But I agree that the U.S. wouldn't starve.

I'm not sure about that... a large part of subsidies is to compete in foreign markets. A LOT of food is produced in the U.S. and the majority of trade is so we can get the likes of strawberries year round. A lot of the food staples like grains, beans, nuts, cereals, etc are domestic. Even a lot of the soy and corn. That doesn't mention that we do supply our own meat the vast majority of the time.

I think what would harm us more in total isolation would be the lack of more scarce resources (those used in electronics, batteries etc). We have a lot of materials here, but there are others where China and Africa trade are needed.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#232

Post by hackuser » Sat, Dec 31, 2016, 10:58 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #231

hackuser wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wouldn't really hurt the US. My expectation is that it would far more expensive, raising food prices and doing significant harm to the economy. Also imagine the massive costs of shifting production and the gap in food availability during the shift. But I agree that the U.S. wouldn't starve.

I'm not sure about that... a large part of subsidies is to compete in foreign markets. A LOT of food is produced in the U.S. and the majority of trade is so we can get the likes of strawberries year round. A lot of the food staples like grains, beans, nuts, cereals, etc are domestic. Even a lot of the soy and corn. That doesn't mention that we do supply our own meat the vast majority of the time. I think what would h…

I understand the speculation, but if one learns about how economics, trade and the U.S. economy (and all other economies) really work, these hypotheses are clearly wrong.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#233

Post by herbst » Sun, Jan 01, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

I live in europe. I'd assume 80% of the things i own are mostly made in china. Maybe 19% are made within the EU and 1% everywhere else. I cant recall a single product i own that was producted or even manufactured in the U.S. therfore i have a hard time believing that title.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#234

Post by br_smartass » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 1:59 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #209

br_smartass wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, surely the aristocrats of before would instantly jump at the opportunity of giving up their lifes of free-time, leisure, education, servants, 3-hour-meals, giant houses, countryside retreats, upper-class-socializing, to trade it with the shopping-mall-worker that does 60h weeks(no weekends), for he'd have a smartphone! Funny. This argument, which I've read before, only works with a really, really narrow definitio…

Lots of people would choose electric lighting, refrigeration, aircon, television, automobiles, etc.?

As if there isn't a counterpart. Honestly, I've been in farms where simple people lived in with no electricity(my grandparents lived in a farm, and it took some time for electricity to arrive, and around the place there were people living even more simpler, completely isolated, which I'd visit to greet with my cousins), it's actually pretty ok. Now, seriously, using "television" as an argument is just lame, who cares about this trash?

Just because you or someone else never got used to living without these, it doesn't mean everyone else needs it, not at all. From my point of view, autonomy is the greatest thing ever, it is freedom, and dependence is weakness and slavishness, subjulgation. IMHO Only a fool would think in terms of "if I enslave myself I'll get to play with this!"(plus, isn't it a bit like the deal with the devil?), to me it's just an example of how little some people can see what is actually beautiful and good in life to raise stuff to this level. Sincerely, I think people who think like this don't have a clue of what freedom feels like(and gladly, I think I've enjoyed plenty and been introduced to it early on). My life is not made of stuff, it is made of time, living, thinking, appreciation, growing, caring.

As another personal example, my father is also deurbanizing and moving back to the farm(which is not an industrial farm as in a business, but actually a place to live, think straight, work on living things which do need upkeep but not artificially). There's no AC, the only thing he watches is F1 races. He's busy most of the time anyway, usually having a beer and working on the farm, he loves it.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#235

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 3:41 AM UTC

br_smartass wrote: post #234

jessaustin wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people would choose electric lighting, refrigeration, aircon, television, automobiles, etc.?

As if there isn't a counterpart. Honestly, I've been in farms where simple people lived in with no electricity(my grandparents lived in a farm, and it took some time for electricity to arrive, and around the place there were people living even more simpler, completely isolated, which I'd visit to greet with my cousins), it's actually pretty ok. Now, seriously, using "television" as an argument is just lame, who cares…

Haha I'm a farmer myself. Your comments seem a bit intense, but objectively it just isn't as cut-and-dried as you have it here. Living in a big drafty house with some servants and a coal fireplace seems somewhat romantic but mostly just cold. One would have time to read, but with no internet and about twenty unique books in the county a lot of that would be re-reading. In every age, we should appreciate new and old things both.