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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

231–240 of 550 posts

Re: No tipping means better business

#231

Anecdotal, but there's a supermarket chain in the Southeastern U.S. (Publix) that pays their employees a living wage, provides health coverage, and makes a point of letting the customer know that staff (even the folks that load your groceries into your car) doesn't accept tips. The food costs are a little bit higher than, say, Walmart, but closer to that end of the spectrum if Whole Foods is the opposite end. I don't…

I'm from Europe so I'm not very familiar with the tipping etiquette in the USA, but if I understand you properly, you're saying that in supermarkets like Walmart, people give tips to the personell? Like to the cashier? That's quite a culture difference with Europe, here they would think that you were crazy if you would do such a thing ...

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Re: No tipping means better business

#232
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

I think when you get out of the food service industry (at least in the U.S.) tipping is more fluid. A tour guide or a ski instructor for example, while I would say tips are customary the "rules" are much less codified so it's largely more in the category of optional

Re: No tipping means better business

#233
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

As far as I can tell, that's how tipping works in France (and I would assume most mediterranean countries).

Re: No tipping means better business

#234
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

I live in Greece, and it is an optional extra here. If you pay with a card, a lot of times there is a menu on the POS which you choose a percentage for tipping, which ranges from 0% upto I dont remember how much (but a lot).

Personally I always give a generous tip, (unless the server intentionally does something bad), just because it feels good to. It is not charity or pity for low wage. It is just that I would welcome a tip too if I were in the waiter's shoes, no matter how much my wage would be.

Re: No tipping means better business

#235
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

Only way i have seen tipping happen where i'm from is on a "keep the change" basis at bars and similar.

Re: No tipping means better business

#236

I have to laugh at people who wring their hands over tipping at restaurants. The guilt and anxiety that the custom of tipping induces is kind of silly. There's a simple calculus to tipping that some people just can't seem to stomach: Tip based on the amount they'll spit in your food. That's what you're paying for. Clean food. In general, the reality is that tips only improve service after a customer or group has been…

Sorry but this is utterly cynical hogwash. I've tipped very well at places I've gone because a waiter was extremely enthusiastic, helpful and passionate about their service. They mastered the menu offering and offered helpful information as I was making my meal choices. They treated me like a guest in their home. Their attitude toward their work had nothing to do with me as a first time visitor in most circumstances.

Re: No tipping means better business

#237
post #184
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse still, tipping is merely a way of keeping class hierarchies, and it's disgusting. When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. Of course, they might not too. Labor laws, minimum wage, etc are all there to make this illegal in a work contract, and it should b…

> When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. So you also dislike bonuses for white collar professionals? Because it's exactly the same thing.

As someone who relies on a bonus the way that waiters rely on tips, I dislike bonuses very much.

It's possible that they're unavoidable given the volatile nature of business revenues and perhaps a system with no bonuses would result in lower total compensation.

Re: No tipping means better business

#238
Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as the author's wishful thinking makes out.

I mostly disagree that "it’s robbery", or it's some kind of unpleasant surprise at the end of the meal for the customer. Tipping is not a secret. You know it going in. You might not like it but it's not a new thing that gets sprung on you at the end of the meal. If you can't afford to tip at the level you want to, you probably won't enjoy eating there. It is too costly for you regardless of the printed menu prices, because you know in advance that if you experience service you really love, you're going to be delighted and you'll want to be generous with a tip - but if you feel like you can't afford the extra 20%, that will be unpleasant for you and the server.

Printed Price + Tip + Tax is the cost of many services in the US. It is not an ambush. I still prefer non-tipping cultures, like where I grew up, but I accept that this is the real cost of things here.

There are complexities related to the psychology of putting cheaper prices on the menu than you really end up paying, I agree with that, but it is not as simple as many of us seem to think.

Much of this article, and many of these comments, seem to ignore the realities of the complicated and entangled cultural accident that tipping the US is. It might be better to unravel it - but it will be difficult, and it will have costs.

Re: No tipping means better business

#239
The idea of separate charging for food and service acknowledges a certain orthogonality in the two activities, and also offers the service staff a measure of unbundled independence, in the diner's perception. It reflects the tradition that serving food professionally is a real skill and is partially unrelated to the food itself.

in France 15% service charge ivs built in, it means service staff are professionals as they get paid properly, and I never experienced diners convincing themselves that the meal was bad as a result.

Personally always find this moaning about tipping, which seems to afflict a large though thankfully not majority proprtion of the population, selfish and small minded.

If you don't like paying for a genuine service, ie. someone at your beck and call, stay at home.

Re: No tipping means better business

#240

Or, you know, finally unfuck your riddiculous system where paid vacations is a luxury, minimum wage is pathetic and health insurance is not the standard...

We did most of that after the great depression unfortunately it took the great depression to summon the political will to pull it off.
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