Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#231

Post by bogomipz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:38 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #91

traskjd wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, in some ways this is a big selling point of AWS/Azure/Goog. The absolute scale they can handle is way up there. The downside of course, is that whilst their infrastructure can likely handle it, handling the bill associated with 'just scale up your service' could be worse than the attack itself.

If Azure and Google would like to gain a competitive advantage over AWS, then I would suggest this: Build out a suite of tools for fighting DDOS. Enable private consultants and companies to provide this as a service. Do this in such a way, that cloud customers save money and have to worry about less. Hell, let companies jump in structured as insurance companies! Also bring in cooperation with law enforcement and use…

You can't just build a "suite of tools" and give them to a customer to fight a DDOS. The way DDOS is mitigated is by making routing changes at the network edge. This is not something you want a customer to be able to do for obvious reasons. And these in themselves are sometimes not enough and DDOS mitigation will require coordinating with transit providers, again not something you would want put in a customer console.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#232

Post by frandroid » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

drieddust wrote: post #205

ryanlol wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you are DDOSed they will keep supplying the resources for you to consume and pay them extra. If the attack is tiny, sure. Otherwise they'll just cut you off.

> If the attack is tiny, sure. Otherwise they'll just cut you off. Yet they get to claim inexhaustible capacity.

For when you want it for traffic you want to pay for, not for unwanted traffic no one wants to pay for.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#233

Post by bogomipz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:52 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #171

atmosx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Enable private consultants and companies to provide this as a service. If I am an AWS customer I expect AWS to handle/prevent DDoS, same way as they do with S3 to achieve 11 9's availability (the files are saved in multiple AZs in the same region - Glacier IIRC copy files on different regions to avoid data loss in case of physical disaster). One of the reason for choosing AWS is because AMZ has deep pockets and has…

> do with S3 to achieve 11 9's availability I see so many people confused about this. Eleven nines is their durability guarantee, their availability that they guarantee is only 99.99% https://aws.amazon.com/s3/faqs/

I hear this misunderstanding a lot as well, generally in relation to AWS S3 SLAs. 11 9's of "uptime" would mean service could be be down for 3 milliseconds a year. 4 9s is very respectable.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#234

Post by bogomipz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #206

takeda wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do with S3 to achieve 11 9's availability I see so many people confused about this. Eleven nines is their durability guarantee, their availability that they guarantee is only 99.99% https://aws.amazon.com/s3/faqs/

What's the difference between durability and availability?

Durable means it was persisted to disk. Availability means the service is up and reachable.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#235

Post by bogomipz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

adamiscool8 wrote: post #165

tptacek wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense. Everyone knows what the default passwords are. And all sorts of products not made in China have default passwords. And, some of the products implicated in these attacks aren't Chinese. I think the OP is grasping at straws.

I was thinking of the hardcoded passwords in Xiongmai Tech components that were linked to the Krebs DDOS. Very much in line with the rumors about Huawei and ZTE a few years back, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Hard to define a motive though.

>"rumors about Huawei and ZTE"

What were these rumors?

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#236

Post by pimlottc » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 2:17 PM UTC

fowlerpower wrote: post #63

palunon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy Putin has nukes. Lots of them.

That's a mute point. We do too. Do you not think Hitler scared the whole world? If you let this guy scare you into inaction then he's already won.

Minor correction: that should be "moot" point.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#237

Post by tyingq » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #117

"And in a troubling development, the attack appears to have relied on hundreds of thousands of internet-connected devices like cameras, baby monitors and home routers that have been infected..." Is that really confirmed or just the reporter writing gossip.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/hacked-cameras-dvrs-powe...

According to researchers at security firm Flashpoint, today’s attack was launched at least in part by a Mirai-based botnet.

Seems in-between. Not confirmed, but not just conjecture either.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#238

Post by bogomipz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

laurentdc wrote: post #26

deepsun wrote: post #23

I wonder, how much electricity do these attacks spend on average? Is it significant for economy?

I don't think so. Modern botnets are mostly made of devices that are operating 24/7 already, such as compromised IP cameras, set top boxes, SOHO routers, IoT devices, etc. The energy spent for TCP/IP stack usage is negligible at best, even when pushing those embedded CPUs to 100%.

There is still real cost to moving those unsolicited bits at the target though. At the receiving end a server that that has all cores operating at capacity has a higher power consumption than a server that is somewhat idle - lower P states or even a C state. Power consumption is fairly dynamic in a datacenter chassis with Xeons. In addition there is an increased cost of cooling this increased heat dissipation as well.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#239

Post by novaleaf » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #121

stcredzero wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Azure and Google would like to gain a competitive advantage over AWS, then I would suggest this: Build out a suite of tools for fighting DDOS. Enable private consultants and companies to provide this as a service. Do this in such a way, that cloud customers save money and have to worry about less. Hell, let companies jump in structured as insurance companies! Also bring in cooperation with law enforcement and use…

> Enable private consultants and companies to provide this as a service. If I am an AWS customer I expect AWS to handle/prevent DDoS, same way as they do with S3 to achieve 11 9's availability (the files are saved in multiple AZs in the same region - Glacier IIRC copy files on different regions to avoid data loss in case of physical disaster). One of the reason for choosing AWS is because AMZ has deep pockets and has…

i'm not an AWS customer, but from what I have heard, you would be financially responsible for the DDoS traffic bill.

Amazon might wave the fee, but you are the first party responsible.

Re: Internet Attack Spreads, Disrupting Major Websites

#240

Post by sophacles » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #181

Splines wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ISPs were treated like a utility and charged per bit, customers would have an incentive to ensure that their devices weren't dumping traffic onto the internet. It's rare that you can see a dashboard showing your usage, even rarer to see a dashboard showing your usage, broken down by device.

With ISPs (at least in the US) moving towards data caps, this is becoming a reality. It won't fix the problem. DDOS attacks via IOT don't have to send much data per request. If my devices are doing an extra 10Mb/hour, I won't notice. 1000 homes is 10Gb/hour and that's just a few blocks in a city. 100,000 homes seems easy to hit, which is a petabyte of data per hour. It's death by a thousand paper cuts. If my internet…

I think this is missing one component though. I agree I wouldn't, you wouldn't, in fact most people wouldn't debug their refrigerator over a dollar a month bandwidth bill.

I would however take into consideration bandwidth bill effects of what I buy. By comparison: today I buy LED lightbulbs and energy efficient appliances because they will have a long term cost impact on my electricity bill.