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Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

nytimes.com

231–240 of 441 posts

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you have a database of the entire population and can correlate relationships in data - what exactly does this legislation look like? "Ok Zuck, here's all my data. But don't run a `SELECT *` because that would violate my privacy". The solution here is obviously open-source and protocol based mediums. Proprietary social networks exist to extract data and sell ads. But let's ignore that and give politicians more…

>But if you have a database of the entire population and can correlate relationships in data That's exactly what the legislation constrains - Zuck's select * from where user_id = 'technofiend' returns 3 rows not hundreds or thousands, or zero if I've opted out of data collection entirely. You can't simply throw your hands up and say "Well Facebook has a billion users too bad so sad if they collect data you don't like…

Adopting an alternative to Zuckernet is the exact opposite. Continuing to hand your life's data to Zuck is to throw your hands up. Begging your politician for a little privacy from Zuck when strong encryption exists is to throw your hands up.

People care enough about privacy to complain about it but not enough to do anything. I don't have much sympathy for them.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For activists I think you are biased by the fact that by definition you only perceive activists that are rather social. I, for example, consider myself as very acivist, but also very unsocial. For politicians my perception is different: one might be tempted to call them privacy activists, but only for their own privacy (for obvious reasons), but not for passing laws protecting the privacy of the ordinary citizen.

> I, for example, consider myself as very acivist, but also very unsocial. Can you square that circle for me and explain what you're doing to be an activist while eschewing the social sphere?

> Can you square that circle for me and explain what you're doing to be an activist while eschewing the social sphere?

I don't eschew the social sphere, but I strongly lack charisma/am socially rather clumsy and rather the kind of person who has difficulties forming friendships, thus I'm not very social.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#233
If I were German I would feel pretty good that my government was willing to stand up for my privacy. In an era when both civil liberties and expectations of reasonable privacy seem to be falling by the wayside, even in countries that purport to espouse such principles I think this is pretty awesome.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural monopolies are very often regulated because of the negative side effects of not doing so. Which is to say, market dominance has transformed products into utilities in the past. You can argue that should not be the case, but, historically, it very much has been. There's surely a balance to be struck between incentivising firms to innovate by allowing them to earn profits when they develop a good product and al…

Can you give examples of the natural monopolies you are referring to?

Your electric company. Running two or more sets of power wires to every house so you can have competition on provision of electricity at the last-mile level doesn't really make sense.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if you have a database of the entire population and can correlate relationships in data That's exactly what the legislation constrains - Zuck's select * from where user_id = 'technofiend' returns 3 rows not hundreds or thousands, or zero if I've opted out of data collection entirely. You can't simply throw your hands up and say "Well Facebook has a billion users too bad so sad if they collect data you don't like…

Adopting an alternative to Zuckernet is the exact opposite. Continuing to hand your life's data to Zuck is to throw your hands up. Begging your politician for a little privacy from Zuck when strong encryption exists is to throw your hands up. People care enough about privacy to complain about it but not enough to do anything. I don't have much sympathy for them.

Getting your democratic government to legislate protections is doing something.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of the natural monopolies you are referring to?

Most classic utilities were at one point or another provided privately - water, telephones, electricity are examples. In each of these examples the delivery infrastructure makes them a natural monopoly. Almost any activity you can think of has been carried out by both the public and private sector in different societies (or the same one). In all industries, very dominant firms are likely to see action from the state.

Downvoted for asking for clarification? So I could participate in the discussion better? Awesome.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#237
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can go get an off-contract sim card, use it on a clean Android The moment you connect to your WiFi, Google gets the SSID and can relate other devices using it. Possibly (?) the SSID is also known to WhatsApp. Does it really help much?

You don't even have to have wifi enabled, even when Wi-Fi is OFF it will still scan for SSIDs to use for location by default. You have to disable an obscure setting to get it to stop this behavior.

But even after the device has detected the (B)SSID, you have to enable either Wi-Fi or your mobile data connection for the device to communicate with Google's servers. Still, just as worrisome.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you wouldn't pay 2 billion for messaging app with few hundred millions of users that is without ads and doesn't make any money to be philanthropic about it, would you (or anybody else)

Well, they could've actually started charging for the service. $1 a year was more than reasonable for me.

I remember it said 1$ from next year onwards and first year was free. May if they weren't not bought out by FB that would have been their option and it would have been a better one. Not sure why any of the lead not start new clone and start charging

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#239

You can go get an off-contract sim card, use it on a clean Android, create a fake gmail account in order to download and install Whatsapp. Now you make connections (you add family and friends to your contacts) and start communicating. By now both FB and Google know who you are simply b/c other people in your network, not concerned with privacy, have you saved on their contacts list, pressumably under your first and l…

You could always, I dunno... stop using Facebook and WhatsApp and other software that you find harmful. I know, totally crazy idea. Just throwing it out there.

That snark is uncalled for. Stopping using WhatsApp and Facebook would make communication with some groups much more difficult for me, for example, because everyone uses them.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#240

You can go get an off-contract sim card, use it on a clean Android, create a fake gmail account in order to download and install Whatsapp. Now you make connections (you add family and friends to your contacts) and start communicating. By now both FB and Google know who you are simply b/c other people in your network, not concerned with privacy, have you saved on their contacts list, pressumably under your first and l…

You could always, I dunno... stop using Facebook and WhatsApp and other software that you find harmful. I know, totally crazy idea. Just throwing it out there.

No, you can't stop using Facebook. On a lot of carrier provided phones, it cannot be uninstalled.

And if you've signed in once, it will continue to run, auto update, and collect your information.

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