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YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

arstechnica.com

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Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make $160K a year, your tax increases to fund the basic income program will be a lot more than the $1K you'll receive, so there won't be extra for rent at all. And this is the way it's supposed to be: High earners will be net losers, people with low/sporadic/zero market income will be net gainers.

> your tax increases to fund the basic income program will be a lot more than the $1K you'll receive, so there won't be extra for rent at all. This will never happen (through government legislation). If it does happen, then the policy will encourage individuals not to work, since the income to work ratio is better if you make less money. This would be a disaster for a country's economic development.

You're assuming a 100% taxed marginal rate after some income level. That seems extremely unlikely. As long as the marginal tax rate is But who says income tax is the only type of tax? You can use a progressive consumption tax (no tax under $x item, y% tax from $x to $z, etc) to raise the funds. Economists much prefer this type of tax because it disincentives consumption rather than production.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does everyone have the capacity to become a research scientist or engineer with enough training? I think we'll have to find some creative ways to use low-skilled labor.

no one said everyone. no one even suggested anything close to that.

What you said was that it could solve the problem of running out of work for people. This only works as a solution if everyone can be trained to that R&D.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one said everyone. no one even suggested anything close to that.

What you said was that it could solve the problem of running out of work for people. This only works as a solution if everyone can be trained to that R&D.

No, I didn't say that. I said we could train a lot more people. Do you think 10% of the world population currently works in R&D? My proposal was to greatly increase the number.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#234

Would individuals be restricted from using any government social welfare programs during this period? Many advocates propose funding basic income by disbanding current safety nets. If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

> If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results. Depending on how much money it is, the extra income might disqualify them from receiving most of that stuff anyway, especially if they also have any kind of a job. That's going to be the real thing to watch out for though. If the basic income i…

A lot of programs aren't that black and white when it comes to eligibility, and how many dependents a person has will also affect benefits. So that's yet another thing that needs to be controlled for if we want to put trust into the results.

One elegant way to ensure that people don't use these benefits, and that doesn't leave them worse off, is to make minimum income higher than all of the income eligibility limits.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#235

Would individuals be restricted from using any government social welfare programs during this period? Many advocates propose funding basic income by disbanding current safety nets. If recipients are living in public housing, collecting food stamps, accepting federal student loans, or any other form of indirect government aid, then it skews the results.

Isn't receipt of benefits from these government social welfare programs dependent on having no other source of income? If so, the recipients of the basic income would lose the benefits. If not, the benefits are themselves a form of basic income.

It's not that binary. The idea that you don't want programs to discourage people from working guides a lot of the income schedules.

This is a good example of how some programs work that could conflict with the experiment: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/income-rules-income-limits

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said was that it could solve the problem of running out of work for people. This only works as a solution if everyone can be trained to that R&D.

No, I didn't say that. I said we could train a lot more people. Do you think 10% of the world population currently works in R&D? My proposal was to greatly increase the number.

Ok, I missed the phrase, "for example", in your comment causing me to misinterpet. My apologies.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#237
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people use illegal drugs at a lower rate than wealthy people. Probably because drugs are expensive and they don't have as much leisure time. The notion that we should drug test welfare recipients is just an outgrowth of condescending Calvinist morality.

Wrong on all counts. Poor people have more leisure time and do more drugs. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... https://www.nber.org/chapters/c11165.pdf Why not just spend 2 minutes googling like I did before posting ?

Thanks for your condescension.

http://www.saprp.org/pm_keyResFind.cfm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/21/house...

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kind of dismiss "other places that do this" by saying they want to see how it'd work in the US https://blog.ycombinator.com/basic-income I had a similar initial question, since I heard once that Germans (?) already have a basic income system in place, though possibly only for the poor ($500/month plus housing or something like that). Though I suppose "that's Germans, not us" or what not.

Huh. Last time I looked, Alaska was part of the US.

So is puerto rico

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#239
post #108
post #17

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…

Education is the great emancipator, but education you and I take for granted as being common, is often not. It's hard to learn and work on improving yourself when you have no time or energy left from being able to just pay the bills to eat, sleep and work. Poverty really is a cycle that more people should try out to see how quickly all of their options, rights, and entitlements dissapear and become inaccesible and tr…

about 50% of people make it out of poverty over a 20 year span. It seems if we stopped people from slipping into poverty in the first place, then we'd eventually have no (or exactly 1) people in poverty.

Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A further claim is that increasing welfare reduces work effort. Is this disputed? I don't know why we are discussing drug tests for welfare, but simple arithmetic provides a very low bar for them to be cost effective. Google suggests a drug test costs $10-30. If welfare costs $15,000/year, then you only need to have a 0.2% positive rate for it to be worth it. Do you think folks on welfare do drugs at a rate lower tha…

> you only need to have a 0.2% positive rate for it to be worth it. What do you mean 'worth it'? Do you think that the benefits to society of giving someone $15k/yr in welfare are $0? If so, why not argue for just abolishing social welfare programs altogether--you can even save yourself the cost of all those drug tests! If not, why do you think society should forgo those benefits because the recipient failed a drug t…

I think it was more of a "follow the money" kind of argument. Governments want to collect as much and pay out as little.

One way to pay out less is to create a barrier such as drug testing. according to the math, drug testing is "worth it" to that end. Its also fairly politically acceptable compared other more extreme examples such as lowering the welfare amount, random denials or killing poor people.

Naturally, I'm not in favor of any of those options.

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