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The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

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Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#231
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI that's basically opposite how the phrase "doesn't bother" is idiomatically used in at least American English.

Thanks for the hint. I am not native English speaker.

You want to say "are not bothered to pay for their tools"

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#232
post #207

> “That utopian leveling of society, the reinvention of the systems of debate and government—what happened to that?” Only speaking personally, what happened for me was that I noticed that these utopian online communities that we reinvented are not really particularly wonderful because a lot of the loudest people in such communities are really nasty people with really nasty things to say. On the other hand, the intern…

"Only speaking personally, what happened for me was that I noticed that these utopian online communities that we reinvented are not really particularly wonderful because a lot of the loudest people in such communities are really nasty people with really nasty things to say." It's interesting that you say that here, on this forum, which in my mind has defied that stereotype for quite a long time. The aesthetic barrier…

HN isn't one of those utopian "everyman" (to cop another reply's language) communities. It has a lot of rules, both explicit and implicit, and is very elitist. My (poorly made) point is that I don't see why we need a utopian reinvention when the utopian stuff hasn't worked while the web in its current state is already so useful at connecting people.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#233
post #228

> “That utopian leveling of society, the reinvention of the systems of debate and government—what happened to that?” Only speaking personally, what happened for me was that I noticed that these utopian online communities that we reinvented are not really particularly wonderful because a lot of the loudest people in such communities are really nasty people with really nasty things to say. On the other hand, the intern…

Without hearing Tims reasoning, I would hazard to guess that its because interaction has been watered down and simplified to a few basic actions, without any real value being introduced. The end result is a never ending cycle of useless information. The kinds of things foreshadowed in Brave New World. I may be embellishing in the predicament, but I think that's essentially the situation were seeing now with Facebook…

> without any real value being introduced > No real meaningful discussion

I just got back from a big family reunion attended by people from all corners of the country, which was planned over Facebook, and which festivities my infirm grandmother followed through Facebook videos, pictures, and messages. We're now sending each other more thank-you-s, well-wishes, jokes, I-miss-you-already-s, and can't-wait-for-next-time-s. That has real value to us. It is annoying that we sit over here on our techie high horse and tell people that their digital relationships are not meaningful and have no real value.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#234
I guess it's time to do away with the web (as it is) and build something entirely 'ephemeral' without that heavy HTTP protocol and 'web pages'. The new thing should be real-time by default and work across web/mobile. Ephemerality is the best way to protect privacy and real-time is the best way to create an amazing experience!

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I don't like about it being in a phone is what happens when you change phones? How's that transfer made easily? How can v you guarantee everything will be removed when they get rid of their old phone? Also, I have only about 15 apps, 300 pictures, and 10 sorry videos and I'm constantly running out of space even with half the stearate being on an SD card. I can't imagine puerile having enough storage to…

We could easily fit more storage (and more battery) on phones, there just isn't the market demand for it. With such a decentralized system, demand may increase. Most knowledge as we use it now is ephemeral and can be somewhat centralized safely. The permanent knowledge or at least the trusted hashes of that knowledge can travel with us.

Trouble with doing it all through phones:

- Data plans. Everyone connecting to your blog through your phone would use up a hell of a lot of data.

- iPhones are notoriously hostile to P2P apps, so that rules out about half of all smartphone users.

There are other issues but those are the most significant imo.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#236
post #206
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think privacy/freedom issues are symptoms not root causes. The Internet today allows/has allowed for the rapid extraction of information/wealth from the masses into the hands of a few. I am totally opposed to the propping up of Mark Zuckerburgs and Larry Pages. Who then get to decide who and how the worlds information shall be accessed. This should not be the point of the internet. There are too many unintended con…

"Why? Because we know there will be nonrecoverable unintended consequences ... It's time we handled the internet the same way." You can set down your phone anytime you want to . It just feels like you can't. The degree to which "Internet" becomes a driving force in your life is the degree to which you diminish your life to allow that to happen. It doesn't have to be this way and it takes very little effort or imagina…

There is also the option to only use sites that respect your privacy. This rules out Facebook for me, and so far I don't miss it at all. I am happy to email or IM people I want to communicate with, or actually call and talk to them. I don't care about people adding likes to photos of my lunch.

I personally am hopeful that there will be a better solution over the horizon.

Zeronet is very interesting to me as a proof-of-concept, not perfect but very interesting and a glimpse into what I would like the future of the internet to be.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google built its business and its current $500+ billion status on stealing other websites' content and storing it on their servers. Can't anyone exclude their pages from being scraped by google if they so desire? If you post something on a site that allows itself to be scraped, only then it will go on google.

Practically, you can't, because Google has a quasi-monopoly on attention. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

My point was that it is misleading to say that Google is "stealing" content because they are only indexing pages that don't opt-out of being indexed.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#238
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without hearing Tims reasoning, I would hazard to guess that its because interaction has been watered down and simplified to a few basic actions, without any real value being introduced. The end result is a never ending cycle of useless information. The kinds of things foreshadowed in Brave New World. I may be embellishing in the predicament, but I think that's essentially the situation were seeing now with Facebook…

> without any real value being introduced > No real meaningful discussion I just got back from a big family reunion attended by people from all corners of the country, which was planned over Facebook, and which festivities my infirm grandmother followed through Facebook videos, pictures, and messages. We're now sending each other more thank-you-s, well-wishes, jokes, I-miss-you-already-s, and can't-wait-for-next-time…

Who's on the high horse? I described what I considered to be meaningless interaction, and I know you see the same things. Were not proclaiming that the concept behind Facebook is meaningless, but that the way Facebook conducts itself is immoral.
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