Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Samsung Acquires Joyent

joyent.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 256 posts

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#231

Post by cyphar »

Annatar wrote: post #132
cyphar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are people out there like myself who are convinced that GPL is the most vile, fascist license out there. Not proprietary software? Not "open source" licenses that don't allow modification (which is also proprietary)? The GPL? The thing that gave us free software in the modern world? Well, that's certainly one opinon. > On the other hand, I have nothing against CDDL. The CDDL has a provision that if any part i…

> The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective. Wait until you discover the BSD license, which lets you do whatever you want with the co…

> > The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective.

> Wait until you discover the BSD license, which lets you do whatever you want with the code... you might get a stroke (:-D)

Including someone taking my software, making it proprietary and mistreating users. I would prefer that less people use my code than someone doing that.

> GPL gave me no freedoms, it gave me the GNU userland tools and GNU/Linux (illumos / SmartOS and AT&T SVR4 tools are just fine, thank you, do not want GNU!)

Wow, so much vitriol for a license that actually created the world we live in today. I'm slightly impressed by how much you hate a license that gives users perpetual freedom. Also, why do you think that CDDL's weak copyleft is better than GPL? I understand, but don't agree with, people who hate copyleft altogether -- but you only hate the GPL.

> Luckily I don't have to license anything under the GPL, GPL cannot take that away from me as long as I don't link with the kernel code licensed under it, or derive code / work from it.

You can dual-license modifications to GPL code. I think doing that is dumb, but you can do it.

> And I'll be extra careful I don't ever land myself in a position where I would have to license something under the GPL. Any other FOSS license is better than the GPL, I have no problem with open sourcing, and cannot wait to clean up my code in order to set it free.

It's so sad that you don't ever want to make contributions to a large body of free software.

> Finally, CDDL is both FSF and OSI approved: the open source initiative looked over the CDDL license and deemed it to be in compliance with open source. I will take what is in my view their expert finding over your position, but thank you for sharing your opinion.

I know its a free software license. I'm just saying it's a bad free software license. The original BSD license was also a bad free software license (requiring you to add a line to all advertising about the source project).

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#232

Post by tw04 »

bcantrill wrote: post #8

In case anyone's curious, I blogged about the backstory of the acquisition.[1] tl;dr: We at Joyent are elated, and we believe that this will be a huge win for our customers, for our technologies and for the communities that they serve! [1] https://www.joyent.com/blog/samsung-acquires-joyent-a-ctos-p...

Bryan - hope you see this since I don't appear to have your email anymore. Do you guys have a list of maximums for Manta anywhere? Specifically object count - but node count/total storage/etc. I'm guessing that was part of the samsung testing :)

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#233

Post by dmpk2k »

cyphar wrote: post #230
ivl wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and modifies it? No damage is done to the original. This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project than a proprietary fork. When BSD/MIT/(other permissively licensed code) is used, modified, and re-licensed to GPL, the permissive project can't take those improvements without also re-licensing. The CDDL indeed save…

> >What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and modifies it? No damage is done to the original. > This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project than a proprietary fork. ... Who is it worse for? First of all, that almost never happens. But for users, there's no difference (if anything it's an improvement because they now have better protection of their fr…

It's disappointing that you don't want to actually make the world a better place

Self-righteous much?

This is embarrassing.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#234

Post by bkanber »

Abundnce10 wrote: post #219
bkanber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Do you have a wait list or place I can go to get notified once the book is published?

Hrm not yet. I'll probably put a mailchimp form on my blog. If you use twitter follow me @bkanber; I tweet rarely but I will tweet about any mailing lists or impending book releases. Appreciate the interest!

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#235

Post by Sanddancer »

cyphar wrote: post #229
Sanddancer wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective. No, that's a pretty standard severability clause that helps the user. It means that if o…

> > The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective. > No, that's a pretty standard severability clause that helps the user. It means that…

Severability was intentionally removed in GPLv3 to make it an all or nothing license. The FSF's rationale is that if they made it an all or nothing, it would be less likely for courts to find any clause unenforceable. Whether or not this will stay true in practice remains to be seen.

I was incorrect in remembering what the CDDL had if a clause is found to be unenforceable. A reform clause has a lot of overlap with severability. While a contract can be altered in such a case, reform means that the spirit of the unenforceable clause must remain intact. Were it severable, then the entire clause would be excised, potentially altering the license much more through omission.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#236

Post by cyphar »

dmpk2k wrote: post #233
cyphar wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and modifies it? No damage is done to the original. > This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project than a proprietary fork. ... Who is it worse for? First of all, that almost never happens. But for users, there's no difference (if anything it's an improvement because they now have better protection of their fr…

It's disappointing that you don't want to actually make the world a better place Self-righteous much? This is embarrassing.

You think the world isn't better as a result of GNU/Linux existing? I personally think that GNU/Linux has had a positive impact on the world, and without it the world would be a worse place. Sure, my impact as a single developer is very small, but I want to help a movement that I agree with.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#237

Post by Annatar »

bkanber wrote: post #160
urza wrote: post #155

Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology. I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly on some MVC applications. But reading things like "A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase development velocity while simplifying operations." I have no idea…

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Hopefully your book will mention in big bold Red letters why it's crucial that all the files except for data inside of a Docker image be OS packaged, every single one of them, especially the configuration files, and show how configuration management can be performed efficiently and at scale with OS packaging, as well as how one might perform change management with the whole lot.

And hopefully your book will mention SmartOS and Triton and zones providing full isolation for Docker.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#238

Post by Annatar »

cyphar wrote: post #230
ivl wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and modifies it? No damage is done to the original. This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project than a proprietary fork. When BSD/MIT/(other permissively licensed code) is used, modified, and re-licensed to GPL, the permissive project can't take those improvements without also re-licensing. The CDDL indeed save…

> >What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and modifies it? No damage is done to the original. > This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project than a proprietary fork. ... Who is it worse for? First of all, that almost never happens. But for users, there's no difference (if anything it's an improvement because they now have better protection of their fr…

> First of all, that almost never happens.

Are you kidding me? The Linux rabble will happily take what they want and discard the rest like a rotten carcas, with fanfare all the way how "Linux is the best!" Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want a superior operating system to be discarded for that steaming pile of excrement after the Linux "developers" swipe every good piece of technology from it.

> It's disappointing that you don't want to actually make the world a better place (not in the standard bullshit silicon valley sense) by giving people freedom.

We do (well, I do), just in a world without GNU and without GPL. That is a better world for me.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#239

Post by Annatar »

cyphar wrote: post #231
Annatar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective. Wait until you discover the BSD license, which lets you do whatever you want with the co…

> > The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective. > Wait until you discover the BSD license, which lets you do whatever you want with th…

> Wow, so much vitriol for a license that actually created the world we live in today.

Yes, and since that world is the world of GNU/Linux, it sucks, because compared to illumos and SmartOS, GNU/Linux is a vastly inferior product in terms of capabilities, performance, end to end data integrity, post mortem analysis, as well as storage, day to day system administration, and development capabilities.

I don't want to live in a world with those kinds of "freedoms". I don't want to live in a world where people who do not have enough experience, or do not care break my applications because they constantly mess with the core OS functionality in a way which breaks or fundamentally changes things, arbitrarily, because they can't see past their lone desktop personal computers, but they think they can, and they think they know what needs to be done. I don't want to live in a world where the core OS functionality like startup and shutdown is still in violent flux, along with everything else. If it weren't for GNU, if it weren't for GPL, we would not have the world we have right now. The situation is bad, so very, very bad.

I want to live in a world where my data is safe, where my operating system provides a solid foundation of end to end data integrity and guarantees me backwards compatibility so I can build good, reliable software, and when that software needs troubleshooting, I have all the tools I need to perform effective telemetry analysis. That world is a world without GNU/Linux, a world where SmartOS is the substrate and illumos is the kernel, and where I, and not the FSF, hold (sometimes joint) copyright to the work I did.

If I had it my way, copyright law would be completely abolished, making all of this license nonsense completely pointless, and it would be survival of the best coder / company: if you are really so good, beat me at my own game, like it has always been on the cracking and the demo scenes.

> I'm slightly impressed by how much you hate a license that gives users perpetual freedom. Also, why do you think that CDDL's weak copyleft is better than GPL? I understand, but don't agree with, people who hate copyleft altogether -- but you only hate the GPL

GPL license attempts to dictate to me what and how I am to do with my own code I write ("you must license all derived work under the GPL").

I do not accept that, even if I firmly believe that open sourcing software is the right thing to do, and believe that open source, free software is the way to go.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#240

Post by Annatar »

cyphar wrote: post #236
dmpk2k wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing that you don't want to actually make the world a better place Self-righteous much? This is embarrassing.

You think the world isn't better as a result of GNU/Linux existing? I personally think that GNU/Linux has had a positive impact on the world, and without it the world would be a worse place. Sure, my impact as a single developer is very small, but I want to help a movement that I agree with.

Linux destroyed so many good things, and some projects like SmartOS now have to spend major effort in educating the populace at large on why SmartOS is a better solution for the cloud and why data integrity and correctness of operation are important. And all of that just because GNU/Linux is argumentum ad populum. What a nightmare.
Post reply on HN