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Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

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Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#231

Post by morgtheborg »

HarshTruth wrote: post #194
throwaway293810 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm arguing for equality of opportunity, not outcome. If the final split isn't 50/50, fine, as long as everyone is making free choices. The problem is that today that (equality of opportunity) is not the case -- there's immense pressure for the woman to be the one to stay home, if someone does.

The immense pressure is the women's own doing. Women largely prefer to partner with men who make more money than them, so naturally if one partner becomes a stay at home parent it makes more sense economically for it to be the woman. If women don't like the pressure to be a stay at home parent, then women can start marrying men who make less money than them (men don't as a group place little value on their partner ma…

As a women who would love to have my future husband raise the kids, let me tell you it's not easy to find an intelligent man in a big city who is willing to stay home and raise children.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#232

Post by vlehto »

belorn wrote: post #20
larrik wrote: post #7

Women who are halfway into their careers in tech are leaving at a rate of 56%, which is more than double the quit rate of men. One reason for the high quit rate may be that women have a much lower chance of being promoted, even when they have the same amount of experience and tenure as their male peers, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. So around the time a lot of people have kids? They probably…

I find it quite interesting that a similar number of 50% of men who enter the teacher profession also leaves while the number for women is about half. In stark contrast however, the quote text, the theory on why men drops out of female dominated professions share nothing in common with the theories on why women leave male dominated. In a 2009 report by the Swedish national agency, they argue that the reason why peopl…

This is completely anecdotal, but I've noticed that gender ratios in groups in general create pretty harmonouus groups if they fall in ranges of 40% - 60% or Small minority is likely to adapt or leave. Close to 50/50 ratio genders balance each other out. With strong minority the minority tries to have balanced group, but the majority wants to engage in "guy talk" or girl talk". The way men interact with other men and how women interact with other women seem to be one of the most distinct differences between genders.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#233

Post by zo1 »

deciplex wrote: post #166
andrepd wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, all of the schools that do not enforce such a ridiculous rule are my data points. So unless you suggest there are more schools enforcing that rule than not, then I have more data points, so I win. Right? The truth is that that anecdote brings no value whatsoever to the discussion.

It brings a little value, in the form of a single data point. Not "none" otherwise no one could talk about their experiences ever, without being accused of wasting everyone's time. Also, there need not be more than 50% of schools enforcing this policy, for it to discourage men from entering the profession. Even 10% would be a lot.

>"Also, there need not be more than 50% of schools enforcing this policy, for it to discourage men from entering the profession. Even 10% would be a lot."

Unless they're quick to "take a hint", then only a handful of examples could have a huge impact.

I'm not in that profession, and judging from the state of society at the moment, I too wouldn't want to work in a profession that functions near children. I could post links to a few articles, but a general search about it will yield multiple examples of parents being hostile/suspicious of male teachers around children. Recently read about an airline that forbid male passengers from sitting next to unaccompanied minors. We as a society have deep problems with gender, but meanwhile we're busy focusing on just one.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#234

Post by NTDF9 »

nostrebored wrote: post #181
NTDF9 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There are fewer women, proportionally, who "climb ladders" successfully. This implies that there are fewer capable women than men in the world. Or, they make different life choices. >> The mother being present is not required for a child to be exclusively breastfed anymore. Pumping is quite effective. The only argument for only the woman to be taking the time off and making these career compromises is one that vie…

>>Don't be a good parent. Nice to see where this is going. >>Get this law to treat women the same as men. Wrt to parental leave, that's what I've been advocating for throughout this thread. I think that the social and legal status quo sets up women as the caregiver defaults, which is harmful to women. >>Women can play point guards when they start having families with deadbeats. Or, men could leave their jobs and let…

>> I think you've missed the point. This is exactly what I did. Both my partner and I have CS degrees from a top 10 university, and we decided that her career looked more promising.

This.

You come from educated backgrounds. Most common folks don't agree with this. A non-working husband will be called a loser.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#235

Post by throwaway293810 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #149
andrepd wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very odd. I can see why parents want to be protective, but immediately shielding a kid if a male interacts playfully with them seems an overreaction.

It's very common. I have a friend who got the cops called on him when he took his 3-year old daughter to the park one day. He said it took a while to prove that he was a) the father and b) he hadn't abducted the daughter.

Where did that happen? I'm not doubting you in the slightest -- just interested in data points (my gut says maybe somewhere in the South, if this is the US, or somewhere rural?) Also, any factors he thinks might have contributed -- e.g., daughter crying, or does he have a big bushy beard, or was there a crazy parent who had a bad interaction with him, or...? That sort of reaction from authorities is just absolutely chilling, no matter the case.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#236

Post by hsubi »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #215
hsubi wrote: post #82

Is it just me or does anyone find these type of groups too career oriented? Don't get me wrong, I am a female dev and I'm all for equal opportunity and working towards supportive environment for any gender or non-gendered, sexual orientation or no orientation. I don't really find these organisations really that helpful in bringing everyone together. I'm a nerd by nature before I knew computers existed and becoming a…

Are you actually complaining about an increased societal focus and push for women's success at work? What exactly is "too career focused", and what would you rather see from assemblies of people who are trying to bolster women's place at work -- or would you simply rather not see such assemblies at all?

I am not saying that I would rather no see such assemblies at all. I know people have good intentions but I wish there is a bit more holistic approach to this rather than, it being just for a type of woman. It should include male, female, non-sex, people who wants kid and people who don't want kids, people with different aspirations in life, not necessary the traditional path set out such as school, work, marriage, kids etc.

beepboop2045 made a good point though about women working under female leadership. We do need role models. I just wish there are other paths being considered and talked about.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#237

Post by michaelt »

BurningFrog wrote: post #192
rayiner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a libertarian so ultimately I believe that everyone should be free to make their own decisions even if there are gender preferences at play. Not saying there aren't issues, but simply saying, "X is anti-women, because only Y% are female," is academically dishonest. It's not academically dishonest, it's the application of a reasonable epistomological presumption: we presume that observations are not caused by b…

we presume that observations are not caused by biological differences without concrete evidence of those differences. The corollary to that is that disparities in outcome are prima facie evidence of disparities in opportunity. This is a textbook circular argument.

Is it? I think it just means you need evidence of biological differences (or lack thereof) from things other than disparities in outcome - from outside the circle.

If I say "Women aren't as fast at sprinting as men, and it's biological, as evidenced by the fact women aren't as fast as sprinting as men" I agree that's a circular argument.

But if I say "Women aren't as fast at sprinting as men, and it's biological, as evidenced by these studies of testosterone levels and their effects" that's a non-circular argument.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#238

Post by H0n3sty »

deciplex wrote: post #222
H0n3sty wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone is wondering what the "textbook" definition of racism is: the belief that "ALL" members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. The belief that races may be different in average ability with respect to certain characteristics or that members of certain races have their own preferences i…

I refrained from calling you a racist even after you said the obviously racist thing. Moreover you first implied I'm racist out of the blue, because I disagree with a SCOTUS Justice who happens to be black. Also: > The belief that races may be different in average ability with respect to certain characteristics or that members of certain races have their own preferences is not racist. Quoting this for posterity in ca…

I'm still trying to decide if you're holding the racism of lower expectation beliefs. Privileged and oppressed are just code words with no clear meaning. I don't know you, so I don't know why you would use profanity to describe Justice Thomas. He has solid principles based on his life's experiences and has had to endure a lot to serve so it makes no sense to me that anyone would describe him that way.

You're probably right about the labels but certainly wrong about the accuracy (thanks for the tip).

I'm not sure why some races perform better at some tasks, on average. I think that Blacks are faster sprinters than Asians, on average. I think that Asians have a higher preference for education than Blacks, on average. I think that the physical characteristics that we describe as races are shaped by evolutionary pressures. Darker skin is likely an adaptation for living closer to the equator. Blacks can probably withstand more direct sun exposure than Whites before developing skin cancer. None of this makes one race superior to another outside the narrow scope of the adaptive characteristic, and even then you only see the differences on average.

I suspect that the lower turnout of women in tech has more to do with preferences around work/life balance and family. But I wouldn't rule out other possible explanations. I've witnessed a few emotional breakdowns at work, but never from men. Which is fortunate because it seems that when men snap they go postal, on average.

> I disagree with a SCOTUS Justice who happens to be black

I like how you phrased that. Much more civil. Do you like George Carlin :D? -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoOOm0-3_8

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#239

Post by marvin »

_1qd4 wrote: post #60
belorn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it quite interesting that a similar number of 50% of men who enter the teacher profession also leaves while the number for women is about half. In stark contrast however, the quote text, the theory on why men drops out of female dominated professions share nothing in common with the theories on why women leave male dominated. In a 2009 report by the Swedish national agency, they argue that the reason why peopl…

In Ontario, male teachers are not allowed to take children to the washroom, even if the child is a boy. This is a problem because if a child with a disability needs to use the washroom, he needs to wait until a female staff member is available. I understand why men would drop out of the school system. Before you even start, you're already considered a predator.

This is simply an insane case of workplace sexism. Most ambitious people will steer clear of careers that have such blatant gender discrimination. Ontario is really shooting itself in the foot here, by providing a strong disincentive for male teachers to join the profession.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#240

Post by imtringued »

nostrebored wrote: post #86
sandworm101 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the biology I meant. I meant the fact that someone just hauled around a baby inside themselves for nine months, with all that entails. Breast pumps cannot change the fact that women and men may have different views.

I don't understand. Do you think that gestating makes you have a stronger attachment to your baby, even after months of having your child around? You're right that men and women may have different views. The overwhelming majority of women in my parenting group who could afford to were very excited to go back to work. The majority of fathers had a romanticized view of staying at home. Maybe my experience is an outlier…

Pregnant women are much more likely to take parental leave than men because they have to.
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