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Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

theatlantic.com

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Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#231

Post by simplemath »

hartpuff wrote: post #214
aninhumer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So what's your presumably non-childish objection to other things being given "whimsical" names? I don't object to that either?

My God, this is completely ridiculous, but I'll try one more time. Do you or do you not believe everything should have a whimsical name? To save time: If your answer to this is "No, I do not believe everything should have a whimsical name", then what is your non-childish objection to whimsical names in some cases?

Are you by chance on the committee that is naming this boat?

If not, you'd be an excellent committee member. You'd be a total hit at committees.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#233

Post by kamjam »

jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

> My other objection is that Boaty McBoatface, somehow represents the will of the people. No it doesn't. It represent the will of people who bothered to vote on an issue most people likely don't give a dam about. If a choice was demanded of the whole population then Boaty McBoatface would never have won.

This can be said about the election in pretty much all western societies. There have been several occasions where I myself have not voted in the UK elections. Does it make those elections any less valid? Same can be said for the US as well, where even those who voted found that majority rule didn't matter in the end [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...]

Maybe we should follow the Australian way where people are forced to vote or face a $100AU fine. But then democracy right, it should give you the right to not vote.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#234

Post by kamjam »

hartpuff wrote: post #69
noir_lord wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If spun right the PR benefits of calling the thing Boaty McBoatface are huge. You could do merchandise, books, characters, You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. It's not like this is unusual we had a Childrens TV series here that was massively popular about talking trains and talking helicopters. I think they squandered a massive opportunity because they don't unders…

The point of the boat isn't to be a Budgie the Helicopter style cash machine, is it? It has a serious purpose. Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does? Why does it require an infantile name to appeal to kids who are old enough to be interested in what it does? The only reason this is even any kind of issue is because of the way internet works, where all ki…

> Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does?

You realise that those 4 year olds grow up right? And that by possibly catching their attention and imagination at an early age it might even make them more interested in the area and maybe, gosh, make them want to become researchers and scientists when they grow up and tackle issues like climate change.

And the very people objecting to it now will be retired, dead or moved onto a more senior position and then care less about it.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#235

Post by soperj »

kamjam wrote: post #233
jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

> My other objection is that Boaty McBoatface, somehow represents the will of the people. No it doesn't. It represent the will of people who bothered to vote on an issue most people likely don't give a dam about. If a choice was demanded of the whole population then Boaty McBoatface would never have won. This can be said about the election in pretty much all western societies. There have been several occasions where…

I agree with the Australian way, so long as there is an option for "Nobody".

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#236

Post by wrsh07 »

gaius wrote: post #201
Klathmon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously! I can't believe that the boat probably won't be named Boaty McBoatface! My nephew would have wanted to learn about it, it would have been something I could keep up to date a bit on what it's doing and he'd love to hear about it. Hell I can't believe the people on the project didn't go 100% for it right away, giving the boat a fun paint-job and maybe even doing something like working with a children's book…

I can think of nothing more likely to turn teenagers off science than being told to study the adventures of Boaty McBoatface.

You just have to sell it properly -- the boat has a silly name because voters were thumbing their noses at the science authority.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#237

Post by treehau5 »

tosseraccount wrote: post #183
scurvy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would these people happen to be air traffic controllers? Also, most people in DC just call it National. Probably because the other airport also has a one word name (Dulles).

Some people call it just "Reagan". Which airport, "Reagan", "Dulles" or "BWI" ? They don't say "Marshall" for BWI, though.

When I was there I called it "The Expensive one", "The One No one Goes to", and "The cheaper one"

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#239

Post by Grishnakh »

jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

I think another huge problem with democracy is the voting systems. As far as I'm concerned, if they used a simple plurality (first past the post) voting system, then the results are invalid, and that goes for any election that uses that system. It cannot be said to represent the will of the people.

I didn't participate in this election (I'm not a UKian) and didn't see exactly how it was done, but I'll bet (esp. given the statements made about the results, and how the winner got 3x the number of votes of the runner-up) they had a big list of names, and then people had the chance to vote for exactly one of those names. "Boaty McBoatface" therefore was probably not the choice of the majority of the voters, but only a small minority, with all the other votes spread across a bunch of other names.

If the name was not chosen by a clear majority of people, then it's not the "choice of the people".

If this had been done by some other voting system, then we would have seen very different results most likely. Approval voting might have worked well here; whichever name got the most votes of approval, if more then 50% of the voters approved it, can rightfully be said to be "the choice of the people".

This is the problem with "democracy": the voting system itself is inherently rigged and unfair, and then we're told to believe in its results. How many elections actually use a voting system besides plurality? Not many.

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