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On asking job candidates to code

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#231

Post by doug1001 »

dominotw wrote: post #215
ryandrake wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the "information sideband" is the very fact that the company decided to cut off all communication as a way to convey rejection. If they treat random people that way, how do you think they treat people who are obligated to be on their worksite every day? Companies: DON'T DO THIS! I, for one, actively discourage smart friends from interviewing at places that treat candidates like shit.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

it's them that should feel humiliated. It's not like you showed up at their door right off the street; you successfully completed their take-home coding problem and i assume at least one prior telephone interview.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#232

Post by b3b0p »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

From experience and being on both sides of the table it's probably a good sign they didn't contact you.

Maybe it depends on the company, but for smaller companies and startups it's not only if you can do what they need it's if you fit in and the other employees like you and want to work with you. You don't want to hire or work with a jack ass, especially smaller teams. You could be the best developer/programmer/engineer in the world, but if no one wants to work with you, well, they probably won't contact or hire you.

It could be for the better and I'm not saying you are a jack ass. You might start there and after a month or 6 decide you don't fit in, feel miserable, and don't like the environment and decide to leave and have to go through this all over again.

Keep at it. Eventually you will find a company that wants your expertise and you enjoy working for and like people you work with. Both sides have to ultimately decide on a good balance. Technical abilities are not the only factor and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's an age issue.

As an aside I have not come across any issues with age and I'm in my lower-30's. I think it has less to do with age and more to do with how your present yourself, act, work, and communicate. No one believes I'm even nearing 30 when I interview or am being interviewed for example and it's never actually been brought up or mentioned for me that I recall.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#233

Post by estefan »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #200
estefan wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are a lot of shit candidates. You might know you're worth talking to, but try hiring and you'll see why people want to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have tried hiring. Many times. As recently as yesterday. Using a combination of (semi-)rigorous personality profiling (time constrained), and mapping the abstract problem domain of their prior work to the problems I actually have for them to work on, it's been possible to align new people with the work such that they're intrinsically motivated, and make sure all the bases are covered for the necessary roles (hacker…

Who mentioned riddles and puzzles?

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#234

Post by dandersh »

Sorry but I will not write any code for you.

Furthermore, after providing ZERO feedback in the past when I have provided github links, offline code samples, personalized cover sheets, etc. to prospective employers this also will not be done. I'm not going to worry and beat myself up because you can't be bothered to provide feedback even when requested to do so.

Homework for programming jobs is just like homework for school: it is not used to judge competency but to demonstrate that your time is not your own as it belongs to someone else. In the case of programming jobs the homework assignment also acts as a filter to weed out employees who will not be properly subservient to the employer.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#235

Post by [deleted] »

dfraser992 wrote: post #133
jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

mid 30s? you're at the top of your game, mentally. I'm mid 40s and the memory is definitely a bit shot. There are other factors in my situation as well, but past 43, you start sensing it. I can certainly still program, but interviewing...I'm tired of it. Tired of being asked picayune questions like I just graduated. Maybe I should I change my CV title from 'Senior Software Engineer'... that actually implies 30-someth…

[deleted]

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#236

Post by im_down_w_otp »

vkjv wrote: post #220
dominotw wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that your github profile doesn't even get looked at until you jump through all the standard phonescreen/homework hoops. Even after than many interviewers look at your resume like 10 minutes before the interview there is no chance that they would read through your code on github. github as your resume is overrated. I am curious to know if people hire or get hired purely based on their github profile witho…

A couple of quick notes: * If you don't provide a link to your github profile, I'm not supposed to look at it. This an HR requirement. Other companies may use this same policy. * I definitely look at github, but it's not always easy to tell if a project is original or not. Quite often I'm presented with either 30 forks, or a few projects that seem like they started as some boilerplate. * Don't just provide github, al…

It's really, really easy to tell what contributions were made to a project by the person whose profile you're looking at. There's literally a "contributors" section where you can click on them and see every commit they ever made to that project.

Also, asking someone to code in front of you is a terrible way to figure out what it would be like to work with them.

1) It's an artificial non-cooperative environment.

2) It doesn't tell you anything at all about how they present and communicate their ideas.

3) The absolute best-case scenario is you figure out one degree of conscientiousness, which isn't enough to build a working profile model of them.

I'd be curious to know if you know the personality profiles of the people you already work with, which profile framework you use, if you know what composite mix of profiles will lead to meeting your institutional success criteria, and then how you go about assessing a person's profile to fill the gaps that you have in that composite.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#237

Post by dhd415 »

binaryblitz wrote: post #216
jorgecurio wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want someone who uses asynchronous programming in coffeescript to build a blog and use shit load of preprocessors and if the library was just released on HN they expect you to use it in production and deal with it. Don't do these take homework projects. Don't work for free.

My company has you write a simple twitter clone using the php framework we use. If you know the framework, it shouldn't take you more than an hour, if that. I see nothing wrong with simple projects like this. We only ask you to do it after your initial interview to make sure you're a fit personality wise.

You're screening more for knowledge of the particular php framework that you use than general programming ability. Which is fine if that's your intention.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#238

Post by maxaf »

dominotw wrote: post #215
ryandrake wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the "information sideband" is the very fact that the company decided to cut off all communication as a way to convey rejection. If they treat random people that way, how do you think they treat people who are obligated to be on their worksite every day? Companies: DON'T DO THIS! I, for one, actively discourage smart friends from interviewing at places that treat candidates like shit.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

That sounds horrible! I have no degree at all, which means that I got exactly where my interviewers are entirely for free. No crushing student loan debt, no heat waste of having to take college classes that have nothing whatsoever to do with my chosen profession. Those who have the audacity to judge a person by their degree deserve to have this advantage flown in their faces, if only implicitly.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#239

Post by kazinator »

dominotw wrote: post #215
ryandrake wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the "information sideband" is the very fact that the company decided to cut off all communication as a way to convey rejection. If they treat random people that way, how do you think they treat people who are obligated to be on their worksite every day? Companies: DON'T DO THIS! I, for one, actively discourage smart friends from interviewing at places that treat candidates like shit.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

That's just incredibly rude.

My degree's not from a good school?

That's nothing; your shirt didn't exactly come off the best dressed mannequin in the Sears window.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#240

Post by enraged_camel »

vkjv wrote: post #220
dominotw wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that your github profile doesn't even get looked at until you jump through all the standard phonescreen/homework hoops. Even after than many interviewers look at your resume like 10 minutes before the interview there is no chance that they would read through your code on github. github as your resume is overrated. I am curious to know if people hire or get hired purely based on their github profile witho…

A couple of quick notes: * If you don't provide a link to your github profile, I'm not supposed to look at it. This an HR requirement. Other companies may use this same policy. * I definitely look at github, but it's not always easy to tell if a project is original or not. Quite often I'm presented with either 30 forks, or a few projects that seem like they started as some boilerplate. * Don't just provide github, al…

>>* If you don't provide a link to your github profile, I'm not allowed to look at it. This an HR requirement. Other companies may use this same policy.

First time I'm hearing about such a policy. Can you explain the reasoning?

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