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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#231

Post by rconti »

tim333 wrote: post #88
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

The issue my be complex but you don't see the same thing in most of Europe or Canada which suggests it's not immune to government action.

Just an anecdote, but when I studied in a mid-sized city in France a bit over a decade ago, one night after walking home from the bar, I commented to my host mom that I was surprised at the number of homeless people. She seemed confused, so I mentioned people sleeping in the doorways of businesses that were shuttered for the night.

Her reply has always stuck with me. "Oh! No, they're not homeless, they're Roma."

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#232

Post by stegosaurus »

The implicit assumption is that if you don't work, hard, you don't get a home.

If you combine that with 'homeless policing', you're then saying that if you don't work hard, you'll be abused by society.

I don't have an answer for this but I dislike euphemisms like 'they prefer this lifestyle'. If you can't work (anyone who understands mental health will realise that "can't" actually is a meaningful word in this context) then you have no other options.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#233

Post by sheri »

Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

To be fair, he's wrong and you're wrong. It's not about what he wants to see or not see. He says homelessness is bad because it affects him and his lifestyle. To couch this problem in such a narcissistic way leads to solutions like Super Bowl city (a solution he mentions and actively endorses). It leads to solutions to just resolve the rich lifestyles, and not actually help the homeless. His letter doesn't highlight the problem (like so many commenters here are saying), but just highlights the impact it has to his lifestyle.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#235

Post by beatpanda »

I was the editor of the Street Sheet in San Francisco for a little over a year before going back into software engineering.

I can't even begin to describe to you how difficult it is to wade through the pervasive ignorance on this issue, ignorance that is expressed by basically anybody who has not had direct contact with San Francisco's homeless population.

You need to understand that unless you have studied San Francisco's problem specifically, you are very likely harboring some ignorant, harmful opinion about homeless people, and you owe it to yourself and to them to educate yourself. This report is a good place to start: http://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/sfgov.org.lhcb/files/2015%20San%...

If you care at all about fixing this issue, don't sit around with your other tech industry friends and try to be boy-genius saviors. Seek out the people who have been working on this issue for a long time, who understand it, who can explain to you why it's a problem and why it's so hard to fix.

The Coalition on Homelessness in San Francisco is a really good start. They've been doing so much with so little for so long that they can now do everything with nothing, and they would welcome help from people who are willing to humble themselves and get to work.

We can make this city a better place if we just decide to work together.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#236

Post by wpietri »

monkmartinez wrote: post #45
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

From what I can tell your main complaint here is that homeless addicts are... addicts?

I really appreciate that you serve homeless residents just like other residents. But you might consider that the people who you are most frequently called to help are not representative of the homeless population. Look at the national stats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Sta...

That's a lot of families. It's a lot of kids. A friend of mine put years into making a documentary about homeless youth in Chicago. I got to meet some of them, and they are entirely different than the picture you paint:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/homestretch/

I think it's also important to note that active addicts generally refuse help no matter what level of society they're in. That's part of the addictive cycle. Homeless addicts claim to prefer their "lifestyle" and will fight to keep it. But so do gainfully employed alcoholics. So do wealthy coke fiends. It's a disease that will kill all of them eventually unless they can start facing how much addiction has screwed up their lives. And as hard as facing that has to be for a well-off person, I expect it's way harder for someone who has fallen so low as to be sleeping under an overpass and living out of a trash can.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#237

Post by FanaHOVA »

m1sta_ wrote: post #155
shopkins wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hostility is warranted when you think you're solving a problem by whining about it on Medium. We all have homeless problems in our cities. We get accosted by mentally ill people, drunk people, high people, strung out people, dirty people. We smell piss on the street corners. But we don't publish it on the internet because of some grandiose vision that our words will suddenly shine light on the issue and spur some…

I don't have that problem. I've lived in lots of cities and have never had that problem.

You never lived in NYC, SF, LA, Philly, Rome, London or Paris then (And I'm just talking from personal experience, must be many more)

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#238

Post by mattlutze »

ctlby wrote: post #141
StavrosK wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited SF a few times, and I was always horrified to see how such a wealthy city leaves its homeless people to wander around, sleep in the cold and generally live in inhuman conditions. I won't claim I know enough about the city from two visits to propose any solutions, but I know that the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of people living like that is inexcusable. I've never seen this before to such exten…

The city spends $167 million [1] for a homeless population no larger than 15,000 (and probably closer to 7,000) [2]. The wealthy city isn't leaving anyone to his or her fate. To the contrary, it's expending vast amounts of wealth with precious little to show for it. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/S-F-spendi... [2] https://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/sfgov.org.lhcb/files/2015%20San...

To boot, that would be 6-7% of the city's 2.5B in receipts from 2012-2013:

http://sftreasurer.org/sites/sftreasurer.org/files/TTX_Annua...

That there's not a significant dent in the continuing issue raises some questions.

Expatistan's crowd-sourced info finds SF housing to be the most expensive in the world, and cost of living in general nearly there:

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/san-francisco

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#239

Post by [deleted] »

cylinder wrote: post #193
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

I disagree. Handling this on a city level is absolutely wrong. That's how it is in NYC and why taxes are so high in the city. This needs to be a shared expense and program on the federal level. Otherwise, you increase the tax burden in SF and other cities/states compete in a race to the bottom, luring away businesses with their lower taxes. Homelessness, poverty are not San Francisco's problem, they are America's pro…

[deleted]

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#240

Post by marknutter »

This fucking sucks. I know Justin personally, and to see the vitriol being spewed forth at him makes my stomach churn. His blog post was clearly written out of frustration, and lacked nuance, but in no way does it justify the response it has received. None of these scathing articles or drive-by tweets are asking for clarification. Instead, his character is being assassinated as an extension of the growing fervor around income inequality and political correctness. If you have a problem with Justin's blog post, then write your own opinion about the problem and maybe highlight some potential solutions. Because if you're just using it as an opportunity to get your daily boost of self-righteousness you're just as complicate as the rest of us who are happy to go on about our daily lives ignoring problems like homelessness.

Seriously, fuck all this misplaced outrage and fuck these kinds of character assassinations of people with differing opinions. We're entering an age where it will be impossible to take a position that goes against the mob's mentality. The chilling effect will be severe and we will all be worse for it.

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