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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#231

Post by NotHereNotThere »

fein wrote: post #60
sosborn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society?

Arm your citizens. Edit: Seems HN would rather die on their knees. Shame.

I fail to see how arming citizens would prevent bombs from blowing them up.

What the hell is wrong with people, suggesting guns as a solution to unpredictable violent situations where guns wouldn't make any difference.

You arm citizens, now what? Shoot anyone that looks mildly suspicious? Hear a bomb go off, you take out your gun then scare the shit out of people surrounding you, then get shot by somebody else that thinks you're part of the bombing?

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#232

Post by jules »

usaphp wrote: post #224
Svip wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he might be talking about Stalinism. Or at the very least, just Stalin.

So you think Stalin was as bad as ISIS and Nazis? edit: Why downvotes? I've asked a question, I wonder how western people see Stalin in history. I as Russian see him as the one who was involved in defeating Nazis

We can debate on his motives and methods, but in terms of death count he is as good as any. But you are right that ISIS is more evil in this sense: if ISIS had Stalin's power and military apparatus, they would do more damage than Stalin ever did.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#234

Post by [deleted] »

andreasvc wrote: post #226
usaphp wrote: post #208

I don't understand how can you talk about ISIS, Nazis and Communists in the same sentence? Communism has nothing to do with violence compared to ISIS and Nazis... Edit: Why downvotes? Idea of communism does not propose violence, Nazis and ISIS on the other hand do.

There has been plenty of communist-inspired violent terrorism. Germany's RAF, Italy's Red Brigade, Japan's United Red Army, Peru's Shining Path, Columbia's FARC, Sri Lanka's Tamil Tigers, etc. etc. Saying these are not real communists is just a No True Scotsman. As soon as people start believing in utopias there's a danger that they will cross a line.

[deleted]

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#236

Post by x1798DE »

greedo wrote: post #182
x1798DE wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will cutting off immigration do anything? I think it's important to realize that this is something that happens and that you don't necessarily have to do anything . If you get a cold, you don't quarantine your block and divert your life savings to rhinovirus research, you just deal with it and try and take sensible precautions about hygiene.

Equating this with a cold virus is the height of imbecility. Governments have a responsibility to protect their citizens. The scope of this protection is up for debate, but ignoring it is not a choice that most citizens will tolerate.

I thought the metaphor was clear - society, as a whole, is not threatened by this sort of thing, and it is not even particularly dangerous from an expected value perspective. The point is not that nothing should be done - as I mentioned with my reference to hygiene precautions. Washing your hands and encasing yourself in an antiseptic bubble are two very different things, and the fact of the matter is that not all deaths are preventable. I was trying to make the point that the knee-jerk reaction of "something should be done" discounts the possibility that sometimes it's not worth it to do anything, either because additional action would have no effect or because the marginal cost of that action exceeds the benefits.

A fairly large number of people die from influenza every year, but we don't have a mass surveillance dragnet to try and isolate flu vectors, for good reason. We do, however, have a fairly robust vaccination system which is a sensible precaution to take.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#237

Post by lemevi »

Svip wrote: post #212
usaphp wrote: post #208

I don't understand how can you talk about ISIS, Nazis and Communists in the same sentence? Communism has nothing to do with violence compared to ISIS and Nazis... Edit: Why downvotes? Idea of communism does not propose violence, Nazis and ISIS on the other hand do.

I think he might be talking about Stalinism. Or at the very least, just Stalin.

...or Bolsheviks, try reading wikipedia about the immediate post-revolution violence called the Red Terror as it will turn your stomach it was truly, truly terrible [0]

...or Maoism "struggle sessions" which resulted in 2 million deaths [1]

...or just read about mass killings in communist regimes[2]. Clearly communist governments have mass killed a lot of people.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#238

Post by blisterpeanuts »

darkr wrote: post #121
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not such a bad idea. Unfortunately, it won't help in controlled places like a concert hall (as tonight) where patrons will be scanned at the door. If not today, undoubtedly they'll start doing a lot more of this. On the street and in restaurants, that's another story.

Depends if the French are as disposed to shooting each other as Americans are. Over 10,000 Americans are killed by gun violence every year. This is excluding ~19,000 firearm suicides. Since 9/11, the number of U.S. citizens killed in terrorist attacks each year has never surpassed 75.

According to bjs.gov (Bureau of Justice Statistics), it's been around 11-12,000 gun homicides in recent years, down from around 16,000 a few years ago. Over half of those are black-on-black shootings, mainly gang related.

If you control for these gangland shootings, the per capita rate in the U.S. is about the same as Western Europe and Canada.

The U.S. has a socio-economic problem in the ghetto areas, not a gun problem per se, unless you want to argue that it's too easy for gangbangers to obtain guns.

Law abiding citizens with guns aren't doing most of the shootings. Suicides, that's a different story.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#239

Post by theseatoms »

olliepop wrote: post #214

Every Twitter user has jumped aboard and is using the hashtag #PorteOuverte which is intended to help Parisians find a safe place to stay during these attacks. It's even trending in Australia. This shows that Twitter is a successful news aggregation and trend following service, but also proves its failure to be a platform for meaningful communication.

How has it failed as a platform for meaningful communication? Aren't you reporting its success in this area?

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#240

Post by [deleted] »

usaphp wrote: post #224
Svip wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he might be talking about Stalinism. Or at the very least, just Stalin.

So you think Stalin was as bad as ISIS and Nazis? edit: Why downvotes? I've asked a question, I wonder how western people see Stalin in history. I as Russian see him as the one who was involved in defeating Nazis

[deleted]
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