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Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

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Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#231

Post by DrPizza »

cerberusss wrote: post #230
DrPizza wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn? Oh right: nothing. > That you find people's concern over undisclosed relationships in reporting something worthy of mockery is appalling and quite frankly all the evidence needed to show you're out to pus…

> What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn Why not keep it civil? I truly don't understand.

I haven't been anything other than civil.

It seems quite uncivil to me to claim that I'm unethical and the not even bother to support that claim, but curiously enough, I don't see you complaining about that.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#232

Post by JohnBooty »

wingerlang wrote: post #212
JohnBooty wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredible resume, but it doesn't necessarily mean companies will be lining up to hire moot. What I mean is: 4chan was a singular achievement. You couldn't exactly just slot moot in at Imgur or Reddit or Hacker News or some other community; his talents wouldn't necessarily be transferable/applicable. I say that with a great deal of respect for moot and what he built, even if some really horrible stuff came out of tha…

He also had another webpage, the name escapes me, that ran for quite a while. And if I am not super-mistaken, a similar app. While it/they failed in the end, it definitely shows additional drive coming from him. Does the "horrible" stuff _really_ matter though? Do you think the admins/creators of reddit should deserve less credit/respect because of the many horrible subreddits? I really don't see why the bad stuff wo…

I definitely don't think moot has a lack of drive or talent!

    Does the "horrible" stuff _really_ matter though?
I should have phrased that better. No, I don't blame moot for that stuff. If we are going to have open and/or anonymous communities, some regrettable user-generated stuff is inevitable. Moot fought the good fight as far as I could tell.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#233

Post by Lawtonfogle »

icebraining wrote: post #202
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Karunamon - who has also been defending GG on this thread - agreed. I'm not sure why Karunamon agreed, but I largely passed on this point because that is an argument that would only distract from the overall point. I would assume Karunamon wanted to not get mired down in that point as well. From what I have seen, I would say that it was not founded for that purpose, but there have been bad actors who have been a par…

What are some behaviors you would excuse from one but not the other? Essential, I apply the right of self-defense to a group much like it does to individuals. The justified intensity of the action is relative to the injury being fought against (up to and including "shooting back"). The ethics of gaming journalism certainly don't deserve more than dispassionate criticism and factual accusations of impropriety.

Self defense is only justified reactively against an immediate threat. Seeking out and attacking someone is never justified as self defense. We are talking about the actions of a movement... deliberate chosen actions. What deliberate chosen actions, not made in reaction to an immediate threat, is justified if the one doing it says it is for the cause of civil rights?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#234

Post by exstudent2 »

DrPizza wrote: post #231
cerberusss wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn Why not keep it civil? I truly don't understand.

I haven't been anything other than civil. It seems quite uncivil to me to claim that I'm unethical and the not even bother to support that claim, but curiously enough, I don't see you complaining about that.

> I haven't been anything other than civil.

No you haven't. You almost got both of us banned from HN for being uncivil.

As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku.

In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already), I'd say all of your articles are suspect given your publicly stated stance on non-disclosed relationships.

How many of those articles are written about your friends without you disclosing it?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#235

Post by exstudent2 »

dang wrote: post #227
exstudent2 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.

> and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, and your comments are generally breaking the guidelines about civility. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly. (Many other commenters have been breaking the guidelines too in this thread, and I'm not posting this because I agree with any of them.)

Sorry, I tried to keep it calm but he got to me. I'll watch myself going forward.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#236

Post by DrPizza »

exstudent2 wrote: post #234
DrPizza wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been anything other than civil. It seems quite uncivil to me to claim that I'm unethical and the not even bother to support that claim, but curiously enough, I don't see you complaining about that.

> I haven't been anything other than civil. No you haven't. You almost got both of us banned from HN for being uncivil. As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku. In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already), I'd say all of your articles are suspect given your publicly stated stanc…

> As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku.

You brought up Kotaku in response to this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10253942

The context is very specifically Zoe Quinn.

> In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already),

What "activism" have you "broken down"?

> I'd say all of your articles are suspect given your publicly stated stance on non-disclosed relationships.

You do understand, right, that your standards and expectations for disclosure have nothing to do with any recognized standard for journalistic ethics, right? Just open a newspaper or read a website.

> How many of those articles are written about your friends without you disclosing it?

You tell me! You're the one asserting that I'm an unethical journalist. Surely you have some kind of factual basis to justify such an allegation?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#237

Post by Karunamon »

DanBC wrote: post #223
Karunamon wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your definition of "networking and growth hacking" means writing positive coverage for people you are friends with and/or financially contribute to while not telling people that, your definitions are broken. It's not okay. It might even be against FTC rules. Full stop, end of story. By the way, why are we talking about whether if you do it is okay or not when just one post ago you were calling the (sourced, verifi…

This is an example of a gamergate supporter (you) continuing a pattern of harrassment (perpetuating the copiously debunked lies about Quinn). Repeating the libel is the harrassment. I understand you don't see it that way.

If by "debunked" you mean "fully sourced and verified". Can you point to even one verifiably untrue thing on Deepfreeze?

Someone is lying in this conversation alright, and it isn't me.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#238

Post by exstudent2 »

DrPizza wrote: post #236
exstudent2 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't been anything other than civil. No you haven't. You almost got both of us banned from HN for being uncivil. As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku. In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already), I'd say all of your articles are suspect given your publicly stated stanc…

> As for Quinn, no on here is talking about her or harassment other than the anti-GGers. I've been talking about Kotaku. You brought up Kotaku in response to this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10253942 The context is very specifically Zoe Quinn. > In response to ethical breaches in your articles (opposed to your activism which I've broken down already), What "activism" have you "broken down"? > I'd say a…

> You do understand, right, that your standards and expectations for disclosure have nothing to do with any recognized standard for journalistic ethics, right?

Pulitzer disagrees with you. From http://pulitzercenter.org/about-us/ethics-and-standards-poli...

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

Normal activities - outside work, investments, political activism - pose special problems for journalists. Often, it's best to avoid activities that might interfere with your ability to function as a journalist. Alternatively, you may be precluded from working on certain topics for the Pulitzer Center if you're personally involved.

A third alternative is public disclosure of any information that a site user might find relevant in understanding the content. Someone who is writing about a relative would need to disclose the relationship. A guest contributor writing about politics would need to disclose if he is associated with a candidate, and any employment or other financial relationship that could be viewed as related to the topic being reported.

Full disclosure of relevant information is standard practice for the Pulitzer Center - a necessary step but not always sufficient when a potential conflict of interest exists.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#239

Post by eropple »

DrPizza wrote: post #224
exstudent2 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.

> You're constantly [citation needed] I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months. > on the front lines of this debate [citation needed] I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle. > pushing for more leniency for journalists. [citation needed] I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call fo…

> Did you consider that perhaps gators are not my audience?

Moreover, did he consider that sometimes journalists should say things that the audience does not reflexively and unthinkingly agree with?

I mean, jeez, I disagree with you approximately all of the time, but that's because I'm right and you're wrong--err, because we come at this from different places and have different priors, that doesn't mean you're hisssssss anti-audience hissssssss.

The fixation on media telling them what they want to hear, regardless of any sort of truth or honesty behind it, and the drive to retaliate against people with the temerity to have an opinion that is not completely complimentary to straight white men is probably the worst part of this whole cancerous mess.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#240

Post by Karunamon »

13thLetter wrote: post #201
comrh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thread is just a great example of this comic: http://wondermark.com/1k62/

That comic, in turn, is just another efficient mechanism for evading criticism instead of answering it: as if the number of people making a criticism, whether large or small, has any connection to how valid the critique is. If someone was making racist remarks in a public venue and got a lot of angry pushback, would you dismiss that as "sealioning" too?

A fun exercise: Compare the definition of "sea lioning" with basic conflict resolution tactics. Then, try to explain how they're substantively different.
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