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A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

nytimes.com

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Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#221

Post by twic »

noir_lord wrote: post #216
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, I also sympathize with the workers who were making $70k. If I were making $70k and a junior developer making $30k before (all hypothetical) got a raise to $70k I would absolutely be pissed off that I am now apparently considered equally valuable to them. I am baffled by this mindset. You had something that you were happy with, but now it's suddenly not good enough, because someone that you consider…

Some people associate their worth with what they earn in a way others don't. I've never really understood that mindset, back when I worked for other people I didn't give a shit what other people earnt as long as what I earnt was enough to cover my overheads and seemed reasonable for the work I was putting in.

> Some people associate their worth with what they earn in a way others don't.

Moreover, they may associate the amount they are paid as an reflection of the esteem in which they are held by others.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#222

Post by jarcane »

Trombone12 wrote: post #219
littletimmy wrote: post #169

The most repulsive thing to read here is the reaction of some of the customers. “What’s their incentive to hustle if you pay them so much?” Really? Do you ask that same question when a CEO gets millions of dollar in bonus? Nah, the CEOs simply "deserve" it. The employees though, they must hustle. Roughly transposed to the 17th century, that statement reads "What's the incentive for this n * to pick more cotton if he…

To me that's just a weird reaction; isn't their wage the incentive they have to work? Is that no longer how it works in the USA?

The myth of "hard work = high wages" is one of the most pernicious and persistent of American lies, I'm afraid. It has never been the case for as long as the country has lived.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#223

Post by VikingCoder »

jkestner wrote: post #157
morgante wrote: post #155

I hope some academics are doing a study on this, as it's an almost prefect real-world example of efficiency wages.[1] I wouldn't be surprised if they see large increases in productivity amongst downmarket employees, as they now have an extremely strong incentive to kick ass at their job (any other job they could get would pay significantly less). That being said, I also sympathize with the workers who were making $70…

I've always wondered how pro athletes in their weird economy deal with this issue. With salary caps, max contracts and scarcity there are all sorts of constraints that change from year to year, and a superstar on a max contract signed a few years ago can be making less than a merely good player who just signed a contract. (One of the rare cases where one's actually voiced displeasure: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/…

"According to a 2009 Sports Illustrated article, 60 percent of former NBA players are broke within five years of retirement. By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress."

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#224

Post by omonra »

EliRivers wrote: post #114
omonra wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain. People call it socialism because a starting salary of 70k is likely to be uneconomic. Ie the cost of the employee is set above their value to the company. This is done at the expense of other stakeholders (ie management and investors, possibly other employees who would be paid less). That's kinda the basic premise of socialism - whereby an employee's salary is dissociated from the economic benefi…

That's kinda the basic premise of socialism - whereby an employee's salary is dissociated from the economic benefit they bring. The basic premise of socialism is that the means of production are in social ownership. Paying employees based on the economic benefit they bring is not contradictory to socialism. People call this socialism because, after so long hearing the term bandied about as a catch-all fear word, they…

As someone who actually lived in a socialist country (the one that started the whole socialism business :), take it from me. While the original framework devised by Marx in the 19th century referred to means of production, in actuality the socialism that came to pass meant that salaries were set for a given position / seniority with no relation to the person's education or how good of a job they were doing.

Ie that was the socialism as it was practiced 'on the ground' (which was in no small part responsible for why USSR economy collapsed).

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#225

Post by phaemon »

vlucas wrote: post #104
mmanfrin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the main argument I hear from people who are against the push to raise the minimum wage to $15. Question to you: how does others who used to earn less than you now earning the same as you affect you?

Answer: It raises prices for everyone, because the vast majority of companies will not simply absorb the hit to profitability, assuming they even have the ability to absorb a cost increase that large at all.

Your answer appears to be wrong.

Here are inflation figures for the UK from 1990 to 2015:

http://www.rateinflation.com/inflation-rate/uk-historical-in...

Can you spot the year that minimum wage was first introduced in the UK?

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#226

Post by noir_lord »

noir_lord wrote: post #217
jacquesm wrote: post #193

Jealousy is quite common. You see plenty of instances of this, people can't wait to measure their self-worth relative to others and would happily affect the lives of others in a negative way simply because it makes them feel better about themselves. After all if you determine your status by the pay you receive and the stuff you can buy then it's better for you if your colleagues earn less than you and your self-worth…

I had this at one job, I was a developer and earnt considerably more (though market rate) than the office manager. She had a vendetta against me from day one with constant jibes about pay and such as prior to me starting she'd earnt the most out of the staff there. It progressed into her making a landgrab (decided that I had to clear all days off and holidays through her etc) which I countered by speaking to my boss…

Since I can't edit and forgot to say, should my company ever grow to the size where an office manager role is needed it will not be called Office Manager since you give some people the word Manager anywhere in their job title and they start planning to invade Poland.

Not sure what I would call it, Office Support Specialist or something suitably ambiguous I guess, the role is largely one of keeping the lights on, making sure the ISP is paid etc it's not a management role in the sense of dealing with staff etc.

Title inflation is a pernicious problem.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#228

Post by omonra »

pm24601 wrote: post #173
omonra wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain. People call it socialism because a starting salary of 70k is likely to be uneconomic. Ie the cost of the employee is set above their value to the company. This is done at the expense of other stakeholders (ie management and investors, possibly other employees who would be paid less). That's kinda the basic premise of socialism - whereby an employee's salary is dissociated from the economic benefi…

> Ie the cost of the employee is set above their value to the company. My salary has never been set by my value to the company - it has been set by my ability to negotiate.

How far (in %) is your salary from the average for the position / industry / city you are in?

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#229

Post by sneak »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #163
morgante wrote: post #155

I hope some academics are doing a study on this, as it's an almost prefect real-world example of efficiency wages.[1] I wouldn't be surprised if they see large increases in productivity amongst downmarket employees, as they now have an extremely strong incentive to kick ass at their job (any other job they could get would pay significantly less). That being said, I also sympathize with the workers who were making $70…

I just lack the part of my imagination that makes me care what anybody else makes. So far as I am concerned, it's simply not important. I'd love to talk to somebody overpaid by three orders of magnitude but only to find out how it happened, in a "The Man Who Would Be King" sort of way. The world is far too arbitrary and random for anything like that to have too much meaning. Indeed, someone in the office next to me i…

What other people make comes out of the limited budget for all employees. If you deliver twice the value, it is only fair that you should receive twice the pay.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#230

Post by sneak »

rasz_pl wrote: post #227

And this is why you (USians) cant have nice things like universal and _free_ healthcare/education. You were raised to believe you deserve more than your peers, its kind of sick.

If they weren't being paid the same before this stunt, they weren't peers.
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