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Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

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Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#221

Post by DrStalker »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #101
rdudek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of things here. Large companies most likely reimage the devices with enterprise license. For example, we order based on hardware configuration. Our company uses HP for everything, so we purchase the business class equipment with 3 year warranty on everything. Also, we don't use the version of Windows that comes with the devices, we reimage all our systems with our own using System Center Configuration Manager.

I'm curious, are you concerned with the fact that you can't get HP updates after your warranty is up?

In general the big PC makers will have all their hardware drivers available for download, and if you need a specific driver you can just add it to your base image (assuming it's not already handled for you by Windows updates)

It's a lot easier to add HP's drivers to a base image than it is to turn a HP base windows install into something configured the way we want.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#222

Post by walterbell »

superfished wrote: post #215
walterbell wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You filed a chargeback against Lenovo and kept the laptop, or returned it? Was the laptop purchased from a dealer or direct?

It was purchased directly from Lenovo with a Mastercard. I purchased the laptop in early December, though they did not deliver until after Christmas (first strike against Lenovo on this laptop.) The chargeback just went through successfully on Friday. I have not heard anything from Lenovo yet regarding returning the laptop. I can keep you updated on this if you like. The woman at MasterCard was very helpful and knowl…

Thanks for sharing the details. If enough people do this, it will provide visible feedback to Lenovo.

Historically, the Thinkpad brand was a gold standard in business notebooks, but they have sadly devolved into poor followers of Apple. Hopefully the Thinkpad brand can rediscover its innovative roots.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#223

Post by spacemanmatt »

javajosh wrote: post #117
lamuerteflaca wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. The customer will see the company getting punished which is worth a lot more. They will think twice about doing something idiotic next time. This is what I call using your lawyer powers for good (and profit).

The analogy is getting your car stolen and telling the police, who find the car, keep it for their effort, and let you keep (one of) the floor-mats. You are saying that this is fair because the thief ended up in jail.

Given the choice between letting the thief have it and splitting it 90-10 with the cops, I am likely to spite the thief.

In reality, they have shot my dog while collecting the initial report.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#224

Post by MaulingMonkey »

uxp wrote: post #213
CWuestefeld wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sony's been on my "do not buy" list since the rootkit debacle. They're missing out on sales of video games, cameras, and other consumer electronics (not to mention music and movies) for their misbehavior. And I know I'm not the only one who remembers.

That's good for you, and I fully support your decision, but I wish to posit an argument about Sony and their numerous "debacles" over the past decade starting from the CD Rootkit. Do you remember when Sony went after GeoHot, George Hotz, and fail0verflow for his and their reverse engineering of the PS3 and the outrage and virtual pitchforks that were raised with others touting that they too would never purchase a SCE…

> Please note, I'm not going to argue that the people that said that they were no longer purchasing Sony products are the very same people that bought a PS4 over an Xbox One

Given the "currently playing" lists on e.g. Steam after a boycotted game releases? I'm going to make that argument. It seems most simply don't have the willpower to maintain a boycott until even, say, the first sale for a single game - nevermind a whole company long term. It's easily 90% noise. Talk is cheap.

> but I am arguing that these people had a minuscule to nonexistent effect on the overall repercussions against Sony as to not matter.

[citation needed]

While I'd be inclined to believe you're right based on the mentioned ancedata, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll have a minuscule effect on other companies, if consumers are ever sufficiently incensed enough to follow through on their word. Or avoid purchasing from them without making big fuss about it, as I'm currently doing with Lenovo for at least my next purchase.

I'd also note that laptops are a bit more "fungible" than consoles and gaming networks, in the sense that you can easily find similar laptops with similar specs for anything you might want from Lenovo's lineup. You'll hear gamers talk about how they "need" the latest COD, or a PS4, but they're more likely to pun about "Hell" (if only out of amusement) than talk about how they "need" another Dell. Or Lenovo. Better chance of making a difference?

...that said, I'm not seeing any kind of significant dip in Lenovo's stock price around the Superfish debacle. Superfish doesn't appear to be publicly traded, although their placeholdered homepage is a good sign for bad things having happened to them.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#225

Post by SamReidHughes »

walterbell wrote: post #222
superfished wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was purchased directly from Lenovo with a Mastercard. I purchased the laptop in early December, though they did not deliver until after Christmas (first strike against Lenovo on this laptop.) The chargeback just went through successfully on Friday. I have not heard anything from Lenovo yet regarding returning the laptop. I can keep you updated on this if you like. The woman at MasterCard was very helpful and knowl…

Thanks for sharing the details. If enough people do this, it will provide visible feedback to Lenovo. Historically, the Thinkpad brand was a gold standard in business notebooks, but they have sadly devolved into poor followers of Apple. Hopefully the Thinkpad brand can rediscover its innovative roots.

Thinkpads weren't affected by SuperFish.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#226

Post by walterbell »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #225
walterbell wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing the details. If enough people do this, it will provide visible feedback to Lenovo. Historically, the Thinkpad brand was a gold standard in business notebooks, but they have sadly devolved into poor followers of Apple. Hopefully the Thinkpad brand can rediscover its innovative roots.

Thinkpads weren't affected by SuperFish.

The Thinkpad comment was in reference to the GP comment about hardware issues.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#228

Post by belorn »

tedunangst wrote: post #181
belorn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read several court cases, I can say I have never seen the court trying to answer the question about how much the average victim would spend on repairs. Its not a question easily answered or find evidence for, and the court do not have the ability to send out a survey. What I do normally see is the court looking for guidelines regarding damages, and here the relevant question would be what a average person woul…

> the relevant question would be what a average person would have to pay in order to remove the malware and restore damages And since the malware has already been removed at no cost, the actual, not just hypothetical, answer to that question is zero.

The removal tool still need to be downloaded and run as per lenovo's website (http://news.lenovo.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=1931&v...). The malware still exist in laptops today and a professional would have to download the file, run it, and verify the removal of the infected malware to repair the machine.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#229

Post by walterbell »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #227
walterbell wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Thinkpad comment was in reference to the GP comment about hardware issues.

The GP didn't buy a Thinkpad.

Yes, the GP said:

> "I always heard good things about Lenovo, but the late delivery, SuperFish, and hardware issues are enough to make me avoid the company like the plague."

"Good things about Lenovo" are usually in reference to the Thinkpad brand. The GP's hardware issues are unrelated to the historical reputation of the Thinkpad brand.

Re: Class action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish

#230

Post by Lawtonfogle »

btilly wrote: post #149
rosser wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who trots out Liebeck v. McDonald's as an example of a "bad" lawsuit is just demonstrating that they're operating from a position based more on opinion than fact. Liebeck sued McDonald's for actual costs of her medical treatment. McDonald's refused to pay for her injuries or admit fault. The jury awarded the massive punitive damages ($160,000 in actual damages and $2.7M in punitive) of their own volition, beca…

You have made a common mistake. You have pattern matched what I said to commonly said things that you have an opinion on, and then have proceeded to respond on the belief that I said something that I did not say. I never stated an opinion either way on whether this was a bad lawsuit. My statement was that it was a lawsuit launched without the cooperation of the company. Which is definitely true in that case. That sai…

>You have made a common mistake. You have pattern matched what I said to commonly said things that you have an opinion on, and then have proceeded to respond on the belief that I said something that I did not say.

I wouldn't call this a mistake. It is a very accurate heuristic not just in this particular case but in online discussions in general. There will be errors, but deploying a heuristic instead of a perfect algorithm makes great sense when dealing with the internet. Less acceptable for something like a scientific paper.

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