My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#221

Post by MagicWishMonkey » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

It would be one thing if the salary was substantially higher than what you can get elsewhere, but it's not. The other perks sound really nice, but not nice enough to deal with the headache of interviewing there.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#222

Post by marktangotango » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #110

grecy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exact thing happened to me today. I applied for a Developer position back in the summer (not at Apple) and after a great phone interview I never heard back. Today, more than 7 months later I got a call out of the blue saying the position was just advertised again and they were really disappointed I didn't apply (I didn't see it) apparently my resume was great and I scored really high on the phone interview (who…

Another anecdotal... I originally got rejected from my current position. It wasn't until a month later that they called me back and we're like, "um yeah, actually come back and let's talk about compensation." Found out that some political hurdles were cleared up for the extra headcount needed to bring me on. Apparently the whole interviewing candidates process was started a bit earlier than it should have.

At one job, I was hired pretty quickly after a couple of interviews. About a month after I started, another developer left, and they went thru the queue of people they had interviewed at the same time I did, and hired one of them. In that case turned out it was a guy I knew.

So instead of posting a new req, when they had just gone through a bunch of interviews, they hired someone from the previous round, since it was fairly recent.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#223

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

mattlutze wrote: post #218

raverbashing wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed The main issue for me is that I find it ridiculous to go to N teleconference interviews and then get turned down in person. I'm sure it's for some stupid reason like "all of our team like sports and you don't seem quite enthusiastic about it" They push for you to "be honest" but that's only an excuse for turning you down. Give them the answers they want to hear and you'll be fine. Also the pressure of the mome…

Every interviewer wants you to let the guard down and show them the real you. We know the version of you that comes to our interview will be copacetic, genial, nice, friendly, etc. by default. Our biggest task in most of these interviews isn't necessarily ascertaining whether you can develop software -- hopefully that's borne out of some pretty straightforward questioning. The real task is to figure out what you're r…

Yeah, however they probably overestimate their evaluation capability, the bias of the moment (candidate might be nervous, etc) and underestimate their capacity of letting the candidate go if it's not a good fit (especially in countries like the US)

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#224

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #221

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

It would be one thing if the salary was substantially higher than what you can get elsewhere, but it's not. The other perks sound really nice, but not nice enough to deal with the headache of interviewing there.

[deleted]

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#225

Post by swombat » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:07 PM UTC

sheepmullet wrote: post #167

swombat wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear, where to start with this... > It's a job, not a country club. Yes, it's a job, but your ability to deliver on your work is not defined merely by private metrics like how fast you type, how many lines of code you can write a day, or even how knowledgeable and experienced you are about C++. Pretty much every job that you might apply to involves very large amounts of communication with your colleagues. When tha…

"Pretty much every job that you might apply to involves very large amounts of communication with your colleagues." Yes, and the ability to communicate well with people who are culturally different is incredibly important. Trying to find someone who has the same cultural fit as the interviewers is counterproductive unless your company is tiny or there is no mobility. At my current company: - We have close to 20% turno…

There's no contradiction between what you've said and what I've said.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#226

Post by rogy » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:07 PM UTC

EnderMB wrote: post #180

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

In a similar vein, I'd also like to know how many people manage to land jobs at the Google's and Facebook's of the world, and ultimately prove to be less-than-spectacular developers. I dropped out of a masters degree to join a startup as a .NET developer, but kept in touch with a few guys finishing there. One of them now works for Google. He was always great in the algorithm classes, and he knew his theory reasonably…

I went to University with someone who aced every written CS exam in 'software patterns', 'user experience', 'computer architecture' and the like who landed a job at Google as a software engineer straight out of uni.

They couldn't complete a single practical lab exercise without help from peers or lecturers throughout the entire time I knew them.

They didn't make it past their trial period.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#227

Post by collyw » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

hackerboos wrote: post #195

robmcm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically it's the opposite in the UK, temp employees in the tech industry typically earn a lot more. In context to the interview I was talking about the perm rate was half of the contract rates they were paying people on the same team.

I concur. As a contractor in the UK, you are likely not paying National Insurance contributions, are able to write off mileage and other expenses, can reduce your tax liability with dividends. Plus you'd still get access to the NHS. I'm perm at the moment, but if I was a contractor I'd be saving a significant amount of money.

You ought to be paying National Insurance.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#228

Post by roylez » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

Sometimes it was not only intimidating. Several months ago I had interviews with apple for a devops position. While most interviewers were friendly, there was a very aggressive one. He started with "I am going to ask you some of my favorite questions", and the tone of the interview went sour. Most of the questions should be from the skill sets he was mostly proud in but remotely related to the requirements of the position. For questions that were relevant, he asked something like "how could you terminate a forkbomb without a reboot?" which I answered "practically it is impossible", he insisted there was a way which I did not know, and I felt insulted. While I guess he was expecting me to answer process group killing (which is still impossible when all resources are taken the computer is not responsive at all), it is just too damn wrong to make an interview a do-you-know-what-I-know showcase of the interviewer. Unfortunately, in big companies like Apple, ego-filled persons are not rare. If having to go through more than 5 rounds of interview, one have a good chance to encounter one.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#229

Post by EnderMB » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

rogy wrote: post #226

EnderMB wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a similar vein, I'd also like to know how many people manage to land jobs at the Google's and Facebook's of the world, and ultimately prove to be less-than-spectacular developers. I dropped out of a masters degree to join a startup as a .NET developer, but kept in touch with a few guys finishing there. One of them now works for Google. He was always great in the algorithm classes, and he knew his theory reasonably…

I went to University with someone who aced every written CS exam in 'software patterns', 'user experience', 'computer architecture' and the like who landed a job at Google as a software engineer straight out of uni. They couldn't complete a single practical lab exercise without help from peers or lecturers throughout the entire time I knew them. They didn't make it past their trial period.

Sounds exactly like the guy I knew. In writing, he knew it all, but had no reference to actually apply it. It sounds like many CS graduates, myself included; without applying yourself in a non-academic setting it's quite hard to be a good developer, because the projects simply aren't big enough or haven't had the man-hours applied.

It makes me wonder whether these hiring processes are built for people leaving university, and not necessarily for those that have spent a number of years as software developers. It's a good way to get those that "know" their theory, but it sounds like a terrible way to hire someone who is expected to be not just a competent developer, but talented.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#230

Post by Morgawr » Wed, Feb 25, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

EnderMB wrote: post #180

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

In a similar vein, I'd also like to know how many people manage to land jobs at the Google's and Facebook's of the world, and ultimately prove to be less-than-spectacular developers. I dropped out of a masters degree to join a startup as a .NET developer, but kept in touch with a few guys finishing there. One of them now works for Google. He was always great in the algorithm classes, and he knew his theory reasonably…

A thing that we all have to consider is that we've all been beginners once, it really does not matter. Throughout my entire academic career (bachelor + master in CS) I've met my fair share of brilliant people that still struggled with concepts that to me looked very simple and straightforward, and I've also struggled with stuff that others find very easy and natural. It really does not matter, you always learn something new and the things that we didn't know yesterday can turn into the things we know best tomorrow simply because we keep evolving and bettering ourselves.

Just because somebody had a hard time grasping Object Oriented Programming (which, really, is not as useful anymore. Plenty of brilliant developers moved past it) in school does not mean that he'd not be a good fit for a demanding company a few years later.

This is true for everybody, by the way, just because you feel like you're struggling on some concepts, don't dismiss yourselves. Try applying at some companies that might be 'out of your league' and you will realize that maybe some of them actually aren't that out there after all.