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CoreCLR is now open source

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Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#221

Post by zanny »

yellowapple wrote: post #202
logn wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that hurt Microsoft? There aren't many people who have bought MS software for years and are now excited to use a fork or their own build. Even assuming that some other mega corp comes along and offers world class support/service and their own fork, it still probably wouldn't hurt MS much. Most small companies would have released their code as GPL (versus MIT as the case here) to limit the risk of a fork fra…

> Oracle Er, no. The entirety of Oracle's dabbling in "open source" has been by shaking free software products out of the rotting carcass of Sun Microsystems and - in many cases - adding those products to the grave (see also: OpenSolaris, OpenOffice, various others). The exceptions - namely MySQL (which wasn't a Sun product) and Java (which is still doing reasonably well) - are few and far between. Oracle Linux certa…

MySQL got worked into MariaDB. Don't think many people are recommending you use the Oracle version much anymore.

And Oracle Java has also died on every platform that is not Windows. OpenJDK took over the Unix space, and Google has Dalvik and the ART implementing the JRE.

Virtualbox still exists. I guess. It has not done anything in about half a decade, though.

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#222

Post by jussij »

mahyarm wrote: post #153
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why everything needs to be open source. People who simply don't like Microsoft will not use it just because it's open. Quite the opposite I think - they'd probably immediately fork it and provide an alternate download in order to hurt Microsoft. Are foreign governments a big market that Microsoft has lost a lot of customers from? I don't think so. The vast majority of the potential market for Windows is a…

When your debugging code, being able to see all of the code in the stack trace is valuable alone.

For .Net developers that has been possible for many years now.

Here's a link from 2008 that shows how it works:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/sburke/archive/2008/01/16/configurin...

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#223

Post by jussij »

zanny wrote: post #220
jussij wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect for the average Windows user they don't care what their machine is doing. They just want it to work. That black box model has been with Windows from day one and it hasn't stopped Windows owning 90% of the PC market.

Wanting your machine to work is also caring what your machine is doing. I'm sure the IRS is kicking themselves for running XP for over a decade, building up such an extreme dependency on it that they are now paying huge sums of money for Microsoft to continue to support them. The black box is only great so long as it actually works, and when it breaks you are completely screwed. It is in Microsofts business interests…

My mum and dad both uses their computers on a daily basis and yes on occasions things don't always work as expected.

When that happens they ask me to fix it and if it wasn't me, then yes they would take it to a computer technician.

Just like they take their car to the mechanic.

Guess what. Not everyone is or wants to be a computer programmer and that group makes up the majority of all Windows users.

And why Windows has been so successful is you can get away with knowing very little about computers (like my mum and dad) yet still find Windows easy to use.

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#224

Post by WorldWideWayne »

jaked89 wrote: post #109
fsloth wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It might appear a bit clunky at first sight, and it might not provide the shiniest eye candy out of the box but in terms of development velocity to get something practical done - provided it is combined with the tooling in Visual Studio - it's really nice.

Velocity? Only for simple, boring UI. Any non-standard control requires GDI+ rendering, which is not very maintainable. WPF offers a far superior composition ability.

I love using simple boring UIs because they are predictable. WPF encourages non-standard custom drawn stuff that only serves to distract from usability in my opinion. WPF also still has weird focus rectangles and font issues.

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#225

Post by kinghajj »

larsberg wrote: post #176
ploxiln wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

github suppresses views of syntax-highlighted files that have too many lines or too-long lines. They make browsers crawl or crash (too many elements...) and they're not useful for humans to try to view on a web page anyway. I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines...

> I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines... IIRC, it was originally machine-generated... from LISP code written by David Bacon, under contract from the then-GC owner Patrick Dussud.

Holy crap, do you have a link that explains that in more detail? That sounds amazing.

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#227

Post by noveltyaccount »

girvo wrote: post #217
Moto7451 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silverlight's implementation of WPF runs on OS X already so presumably a lot of the ground work, at least for an OS X port, exists. I'd buy a copy of VS for Mac in a heartbeat.

Same. I haven't run windows in 7 years, but Visual Studio is still one of the best IDEs I've ever used. I'd gladly pay for it if it was released on OS X/Linux, although that's somewhat contingent on the plugins that I want running on it too.

Doesn't Windows cost like $200 on top of a $1000+ copy of visual studio? Why draw the line at not paying for the OS?

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#228

Post by otakucode »

zanny wrote: post #221
yellowapple wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oracle Er, no. The entirety of Oracle's dabbling in "open source" has been by shaking free software products out of the rotting carcass of Sun Microsystems and - in many cases - adding those products to the grave (see also: OpenSolaris, OpenOffice, various others). The exceptions - namely MySQL (which wasn't a Sun product) and Java (which is still doing reasonably well) - are few and far between. Oracle Linux certa…

MySQL got worked into MariaDB. Don't think many people are recommending you use the Oracle version much anymore. And Oracle Java has also died on every platform that is not Windows. OpenJDK took over the Unix space, and Google has Dalvik and the ART implementing the JRE. Virtualbox still exists. I guess. It has not done anything in about half a decade, though.

>Virtualbox still exists. I guess. It has not done anything in about half a decade, though.

What do you mean? I use VirtualBox for lots of stuff and it gets regular updates... it's also faster than VMWare in most benchmarks I've seen. Perhaps you're thinking of something else when speaking of 'not doing anything'?

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#229

Post by otakucode »

doodpants wrote: post #112
fsloth wrote: post #65

De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. What the hell happened. It's like Skeletor became He-Mans best buddy all of a sudden and started helping everyone. I'm thrilled. The MS tooling is really, really good and the only thing stopping me from committing to the stack fully has been it's lack of open sourceness (vendor lock in is still feasible but getting less of an issue). Edit: Pardon the…

> De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. Kind of ironic, what with Ballmer's "Developers developers developers..." spiel.

Unfortunately, Ballmer's managerial approach is what killed it. He might have known that helping developers was the way to go, but he also thought that competition in the organization would lead to better performance. My understanding is that this idea failed in some of the most vicious and destructive ways possible. I hope that the very visible failure of his cut-throat management style and setting up so many disincentives to cooperation in the organization is highly recognized in management-theory circles. It turns out making your company a terrible place to work with everyone at each others throats isn't a good idea. Whodathunkit?

Re: CoreCLR is now open source

#230

Post by damian2000 »

edwinnathaniel wrote: post #87
frik wrote: post #3

Next step, WinForms

I'm still waiting for a good cross-platform UI toolkit with good tools and ecosystems around it without resorting to C++ (Qt) or JS approach (atom/nw). C++ tooling is behind its time (CMake, no dependency management) and JS approach seems kludgy right now. Java was pretty close (JDK .. or NetBeans, support packaging to Windows or Mac AppStore) but the UI component for OSX is not pleasing and would be nice if it can p…

Sounds like the only thing that would fit your bill would be IntelliJ IDEA using Java bindings for either wxWidgets, Qt or GTK+?
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