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LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

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Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#221

Post by jarin »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #94
pwr22 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And every choice we make may change who we are relative to who we would be if we didn't make it. Basically that line of argument is fruitless imo

These chemicals will change your brain, and your brain is who you are. It's not philosophical. It's physical.

This is actually one of the insights that I think are pretty common with LSD. Your brain is made up of various subsystems (visual processing, time perception, language interpretation, language generation, motor control, etc.), but subjectively they all seem to be a singular "you" unit.

With LSD it's really demonstrated to you that the "you" part is in some ways separate from some of the other parts but in other ways not separate. It's a feeling and an experience that is very hard to describe to someone who hasn't also experienced it, although I have heard some people have a similar effect with really deep meditative states.

Either way, you're not likely to change into a completely different person after an acid trip. You just think about things a little differently is all, and even that wears off after a while.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#222

Post by anonbanker »

lappa wrote: post #220
anonbanker wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part about doing any drug without skepticism. I'll wait.

What about that is straw man? I don't think you have a full understanding of the fallacy. The wikipedia definition is "A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument." I haven't misrepresented your argument in any way since I haven't represented your argument in any way. I never claimed you claimed anything . It isn't fallacious to ask some…

You van insult my post all you want, but you're blind if you honestly think your reply wasn't a misrepresentation of my original statement, unless you can prove that I said exactly what you said I did in the post before I pointed out the straw man.

But you can't, so you won't.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#223

Post by lappa »

anonbanker wrote: post #222
lappa wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about that is straw man? I don't think you have a full understanding of the fallacy. The wikipedia definition is "A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument." I haven't misrepresented your argument in any way since I haven't represented your argument in any way. I never claimed you claimed anything . It isn't fallacious to ask some…

You van insult my post all you want, but you're blind if you honestly think your reply wasn't a misrepresentation of my original statement, unless you can prove that I said exactly what you said I did in the post before I pointed out the straw man. But you can't, so you won't.

There is no strawman because I was asking a question about your position, not asserting that you held a certain position.

Please, if your position isn't what I asked, state what it is.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#224

Post by anonbanker »

lappa wrote: post #223
anonbanker wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You van insult my post all you want, but you're blind if you honestly think your reply wasn't a misrepresentation of my original statement, unless you can prove that I said exactly what you said I did in the post before I pointed out the straw man. But you can't, so you won't.

There is no strawman because I was asking a question about your position, not asserting that you held a certain position. Please , if your position isn't what I asked, state what it is.

really? your entire defense is coming down to "it's not a strawman if it's asked in a question"?

definitely adding you to the list of astroturfers on HN with that reply.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#225

Post by spdustin »

meowface wrote: post #195
spdustin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provigil is legal, if prescribed, as it is for pilots. So is amphetamine - that's what Adderall is. I've taken Provigil and actively take Adderall (by prescription, diagnosed with ADD as an adult, best thing I ever did for my career). Their effects are, ultimately, similar, though with a different time to onset and duration of effect.

As a developer whose (suspected) ADD has been growing worse over the years, I think your post just convinced me to see a doctor about it. It's making work more and more difficult for me.

Late reply, but maybe you'll find it anyway.

I struggled with seeing things through (projects, homework, household tasks) amidst a cacophonous riot of distractions competing for my directionless attention. I thought I was broken. I really did. I did my own research into numerous mental conditions because I actually thought i might have something deeply wrong with me.

Turns out, it's mostly chemical. You have no idea how freeing that was to discover, to lay down those burdens and recognize that I'm just wired differently, and that my unusual wiring can be an amazing advantage if only I could control that one thing: where my attention goes.

First day on Adderall, and I literally felt like a superhero, I got so much shit done. I'm told that neurotypical folks who take Adderall just get revved up.

But if you have ADD, your brain either makes too little dopamine, or the re-uptake of dopamine is revved up. So your brain is constantly and subconsciously seeking the reward of novelty by taking over your normally conscious ability to direct your attention (something most people take for granted).

And Adderall changes that. It gives you the ability that most people have to control where their attention goes, even if the task isn't particularly novel or exciting.

People without it just don't understand how I can say I can't control my attention, it's such an alien concept to them. I can control it, as long as its focused on something exciting and new. Tasks were due "now" or "not now", and "not now" just wasn't very exciting for my brain's wiring. Oh, look, a chicken!

It was literally a life changing decision for me. I never regretted it. Never felt like I was giving in. Never felt like I lost a part of myself to the drugs.

Hell, some days, I still feel like a superhero.

Get a referral if you need one to see a psychiatrist, unless your general physician is well versed in dosage and formulations for the stimulants (there are two major kinds and one may end up being significantly better for your particular wiring). And get your heart checked too - amphetamines and heart rhythm defects don't go together.

That's my rambling (meds wore off a long time ago!) and too-late reply, and I hope you discover it.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#226

Post by lappa »

anonbanker wrote: post #224
lappa wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no strawman because I was asking a question about your position, not asserting that you held a certain position. Please , if your position isn't what I asked, state what it is.

really? your entire defense is coming down to "it's not a strawman if it's asked in a question"? definitely adding you to the list of astroturfers on HN with that reply.

Questions aren't assertions, and one of the requirements for straw man is asserting you hold a position.

I'm done with this discussion at this point. I don't think you really have a concrete claim regarding the topic and you are avoiding creating one by derailing the conversation by arguing my question is fallacious.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#227

Post by meowface »

spdustin wrote: post #225
meowface wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developer whose (suspected) ADD has been growing worse over the years, I think your post just convinced me to see a doctor about it. It's making work more and more difficult for me.

Late reply, but maybe you'll find it anyway. I struggled with seeing things through (projects, homework, household tasks) amidst a cacophonous riot of distractions competing for my directionless attention. I thought I was broken. I really did. I did my own research into numerous mental conditions because I actually thought i might have something deeply wrong with me. Turns out, it's mostly chemical. You have no idea…

Thank you very much for this, it's given me a lot of hope. Your pre-Adderall experience sounds completely identical to my life as it is now.

I've always avoided seeing a doctor about it because of horror stories I've heard about Ritalin and Adderall from friends and strangers. I don't want to become dependent on any sort of drug, or at least not in a way that affects me in the long term or causes serious withdrawal issues. If it actually does the job with tolerable side effects I'd be okay with taking it for the rest of my life.

I'm going to arrange an appointment in the near future.

Re: LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? (2006)

#228

Post by avodonosov »

codeshaman wrote: post #204
avodonosov wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, it is too well articulated (people on LSD have trouble to explain even approximately their state of mind), and too precise match to Vedanta philosophy, that I have suspicion that you inherit this formulation either directly from Vedanta / Yoga / Sankhya or from people interested in eastern culture (as hippies and enthusiasts of "mind-expansion" in 60-ies), and then decided their drug experience was exactly this.

I've never practiced eastern philosophy, but it's not surprising that people arrive at the same conclusions on psychedelics. See, psychedelic plants/fungi have been around since before humans and people who took them, say, 3000 years ago had the same trips and the same realisations that we have today. Then they came back and wrote about their conclusions, which has sometimes led to the creations of new philosophies o…

I thought maybe you was influenced by people accompanying you. But I also did some reading and see that loss of self-identity is an often symptom caused by psychedelics, so I don't know.

BTW, eastern practitioners explicitly advice against drug use, they employ other methods to achieve and retain this state of mind: bhakti (love), jnana (knowledge - means analysing the difference between thoughts and thinking process and Atman - the Self who perceives them), karma yoga, raja yoga, etc.

Some people fall into this state spontaneously, Ramana Maharishi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi) got this "enlightenment" at 16, and didn't speak several years after that.

I enjoy reading eastern texts, as artifacts of brilliant thought, also interesting in context of our development towards AI, where we still don't have satisfying theory for consciousness (that Vedanta calls atman). They have also accumulated interesting theories and terminology about mind mechanics. But I think it's worth to remain skeptical. After all, those strange states of mind may be just dysfunctions. For example, anoxaemia, inhaling vapors of glues and varnishes, sensory and motor deprivation induce "special effects" on cognition and mind too.

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