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Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

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Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#221
post #165
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same experience in Norway. Maybe it is a Northern European thing? Edited: Scandinavian -> Norther Europe

It is a European thing actually. Sometimes it seems labor rights are perceived as socialism by Americans.

Maybe that's not it. I think it is American politics value businesses more than people.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Lyft driver, I am more productive the more hours I work (I top out at 12 hours which I only do on weekends). So the 8 hour rule doesn't apply for everyone.

I think your thesis holds, but I don't think it's clear that your example does (though it certainly still could). Depending on just how much chance of accident goes up over time, and just how great a "productivity" hit we apply for an accident, it is absolutely the case that your productivity falls at some point and it's conceivably the case that it's before 12 (or even 8) hours - though for all I know it's at 15.

I'm sure the fatigue that sets in after (say) 15 hours would be a serious factor in accident risk. I mean truckers are required to stay under a certain work day/week and get enough sleep for safety reasons. Sure if they drove 24 hours straight they would get there faster and in theory be more productive but there are serious safety concerns both with the driver and with the truck (less time for maintenance or inspection)

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#223
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to have a peculiar and unlikely assumption that they would have produced less by working fewer hours, while almost all human experiences show those at the top of their profession rarely if ever got there by merely punching a timeclock more than the next tier down. I will never be a world class ballet dancer or world class basketball player simply by putting in a little more time than the next guy.

Yes more time won't make you world class, but I bet the world class ballet dancer and basketball players often put in more than 8 hours a day.

Probably but at some point you get diminishing returns. The human body needs rest to recover.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#224
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes more time won't make you world class, but I bet the world class ballet dancer and basketball players often put in more than 8 hours a day.

Probably but at some point you get diminishing returns. The human body needs rest to recover.

Absolutely. But I bet the world class athlete knows where that point is for themselves far better than a legislator.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#225
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However not the case in Göteborg.

The Swedish average commute is under 25 minutes (excluding the top 5% who travel an hour or more). [1] My friends' commute in Stockholm includes the walk to drop off kids at the local school. Is Göteborg worse than the rest of the country? [1] http://jamda.ub.gu.se/handle/1/738

The average for the US is a little over 25 minutes.

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/average-commute-times-usa-int...

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#226
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you spend an hour a day in a traffic jam? Is there something wrong with your public transport system?

I default to America as that's where I live. I don't think much of our public transport. Sure where I live they probably don't need more than just the buses we have but I had never seen a passenger train (just cargo, as far as I know) until I went abroad. The ease of getting around was amazing and I could totally see not owning a car there. I'm sure there is just as good public transport here but it doesn't seem to b…

Where do you live where you've never seen a passenger train? The Northeast has a busy train route between cities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor

Some cities (even some small ones) have EXCELLENT public transport but some places have zero public transport. And with widespread suburban sprawl it gets worse since you generally need a car to live in suburbia.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#227
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to change that feeling though (short of moving out of the US). I believe I could work 6-8 hrs / day and no one would care but I can't stop feeling guilty at home

Let me guess... You were raised Christian? Protestant perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic (EDIT: It's about the feeling of guild, people. It's embedded inside the Protestant Culture, alongside with working hard. As mentioned in Wikipedia link)

I feel "Puritan work ethic" would be more appropriate for Americans.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#228
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nowadays we know that total productivity is higher if you have 8 hour work days," We know ? Surely on a planet with 7 billion people, some of them can maintain their work efficiency for more than 8 hours. What about the Steve Jobs and John Carmack's of the world? I don't see them being 9-5 people.

That seems to have a peculiar and unlikely assumption that they would have produced less by working fewer hours, while almost all human experiences show those at the top of their profession rarely if ever got there by merely punching a timeclock more than the next tier down. I will never be a world class ballet dancer or world class basketball player simply by putting in a little more time than the next guy.

It definitely depends on the field.

Plus, in certain fields, even if you are experiencing diminishing returns, you can still squeeze more value out of those additional hours than someone else can.

Imagine one Friday your company calls the law firm you have on retainer. The guy handling your case has already put in 50 hours this week and is only operating at 80% capacity. You are still going to get better work out of him than his coworker, because your guy has everything about your case stored in his head without reading any notes.

On the other hand, if someone was on some type of monitoring duty, where usually nothing happens but if something does happen it's very important that he make the right call (ie guard duty, nuclear power plant operator) I would want to split his work over many people.

Sometimes two 30-hour workers perform better than one 60-hour worker, and sometimes they perform worse.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#229
I found the Netherlands numbers strange, but then worked on a Dutch project. They were very industrious, and planned things well in advance, including avoiding work on Fridays or during their sacred vacations. If you can pull off 1400 hours in a year, god bless!

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#230
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love capitalism, I hate socialism.

That's a meaningless statement without defining which form of capitalism and which form of socialism you are referring to. I'm a marxist, and I hate many forms of socialism. Karl Marx hated many forms of socialism. He even devoted a chapter of the Communist Manifesto to ripping apart forms of socialism he didn't like.

I love regular capitalism and hate all forms of socialism.
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